Author Topic: 3rd Party ATC Alternatives?  (Read 1296 times)

kronovan

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3rd Party ATC Alternatives?
« on: June 02, 2023, 06:40:28 PM »
I'm wondering if anyone here is using an alternative to MSFS's in-game ATC.  My goal/dream is to get an alternative ATC solution that allows for Voice Recognition. I've been attempting to get an alternate ATC product called PF3 working, but even for just key pushes the demo has been a complete flop! As well, it only integrates with 3rd party voice recognition -I do own VoiceBot- and provides the bare minimum in its doc for how to configure it for VR. The only take away for the hours I've wasted attempting go get it to work, is that I've had good success creating a VoiceBot ATC profile that works under Win10.  That may not sound like much, but trying to previously get VoiceBot to work on Win7 64 Ultimate was an utter failure. I later found out that MS broke voice recognition in an update for that flavor of Win7, but were too far into Win 8.1 development to bother with fixing it.

I've also been eyeing a product called Pilot2ATC, but it'd cost me as much as I paid for MSFS.  On top of that, it looks to require a Navigraph or Navdata Pro subscription to leverage the most from it. It does look easier to configure and it has the added advantage of having built in voice recognition. Of the 2 data products, Navigraph is supposed to give the most benefits when configured for it. But I just can't see myself paying annually for a Navigraph sub that'll cost me much as I did for MSFS.

Then there's the problem that I really like flying bush plans to smaller airports and seaplane bases, for which MSFS seems woefully missing the required data. The seaplane bases can't even be used in any flight plan that PF3 loads. PF3 allows you to add in that missing data, but it's a pain. I'm guessing one would have to manually add some of the missing data directly in MSFS, but how?

I'm considering just throwing in the towel and focusing on creating a good VoiceBot VR profile that works with MSFS's canned ATC.
I'm wondering though what other folks here are using for MSFS ATC?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2023, 06:48:10 PM by kronovan »

MTN1794

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Re: 3rd Party ATC Alternatives?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2023, 09:41:57 PM »
I've used Pilot2ATC and was happy with it.  I added extra voices (easy to do - there is a youtube how to do it).  It's not as detailed in terms of taxiing to the gate, but taxiing to takeoff was ok.

nbrich1

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Re: 3rd Party ATC Alternatives?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2023, 09:39:17 AM »
As an option to 3rd party ATC, there is some real ATC of sorts, that being via Vatsim or IVAO (using vpilot, swift or the IVAO client). Makes very good ATC.. but they're not always on where you might be flying.
Regards from Toronto, Canada. Home Airport CYYZ.
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kronovan

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Re: 3rd Party ATC Alternatives?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2023, 12:48:07 PM »
Many thanks to both of you for the replies.

I did download the Pilot2ATC demo and it's been night & day in comparison to the PF3 demo. I did find a youtube on how to add extra Win10 voices and immediately added 11 addtional English voices  -  quick & simple IMO. That gave me a total 13 and since there's only facility slots for 15 voices that seemed ample.
I like P2A's built in voice recognition and find it more reliable than my VoiceBot app. And wow does it ever have a a lot of features - its moving map seems good enough for me to consider just using it instead of my current gotos of PlanG or LittleNavMap.

The 2 things I need to do with it before I make a purchase, is determine how much it can add to MSFS VFR departures or arrivals at remote locations where you're only dialoging with a Center. Though just having the ability to speak into my mic for the interaction with a center for such flights is a big boon IMO. I also need to spend more time with its voice training to test how well it works with the VFR commands and just overall reliability for recognition. I'm about 90% towards pushing the [buy] button for it.

I did spent some time with FSX-SE using VATSIM via the vpilot client. It worked well, but as you said I found it hard to be on when controllers were available. That was before the release of MSFS though, so maybe the situation hase improved?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2023, 12:50:54 PM by kronovan »

kronovan

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Re: 3rd Party ATC Alternatives?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2023, 08:18:26 PM »
...It's not as detailed in terms of taxiing to the gate, but taxiing to takeoff was ok.

 
On the topic of taxing, a question that comes up for me with Pilot2ATC is whether or not a Navigraph subscription is still necessary, considering it can now work with Pete & John Dowson's (creator of FSUIPC) MakeRwys tool?
I had to use that tool for the PF3 demo and it was quite easy and relatively painless to update the runway and taxiway data. I've read that Pilot2ATC comes with an AIRAC database that's out of date and all the posts I've read said a Navigraph or NavData Pro subscription are necessary to update it for P2A. If I'm understanding correctly what I did for PF3 though, MakeRwys should do the job of making P2A runways and taxiways in synch with MSFS.

Of course that probably depends upon whether you're content with the state of runways and taxiways in MSFS. I'm more concerned about changes make through add-on scenery airports I've installed. So my thinking is that the state of them in MSFS is OK for me. But maybe I'm not understanding it correctly or completely?

stiletto2

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Re: 3rd Party ATC Alternatives?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2023, 08:07:49 AM »
I too use P2A but not the updated Navigraph data.  MakeRwys will update runway and taxiway info for all scenery that is active in your Community folder (including 3rd party addons) unless the scenery package is encrypted.

One of the things that Navigraph adds is the up-to-date procedures for the up-to-date rwys and taxiways.   Bigger iron flyers need the Navigraph updates.  But for small GA in bush areas it is not so important.  Also, keep in mind that, last I checked, Navigraph does not support many small airfields and offers no support for  Seaplane Bases large or small. 

This means that the old Navigraph file that P2A comes with will not recognize any Seaplane Bases and updating the Navigraph data will not change that situation as far as I know.

Rod

kronovan

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Re: 3rd Party ATC Alternatives?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2023, 11:39:27 AM »
Thanks for the info Stiletto2 - clears up my questions. I encountered no support for seaplane bases in PF3 too (can't ever include them in a flight plan), so I assumed the same would be the case for P2A. I get no joy with flying heavies so bleeding edge approaches probably aren't necessary for me. I hope my airports aren't encrypted - only large/International airports I've purchased are FSIM Studio's Vancouver Intl and Northern Sky Studio's Juneau Intl. The other 10 I've bought are all regional or smaller airports in BC and AK.

I did encounter some problems with some of the VFR voice command statements when doing grammar testing. In particular it's near impossible to get it to recognize the words "squawk" or "squawking". I've noticed that some of the VFR commands are lengthy and certain keywords are frequently missed. I'm very confident it isn't Win10 voice recognition, because when I do the voice training I rarely have to repeat a command statement - even those containing squawk or squawking. I'm sort of getting the impression that the Pilot2ATC testers might not be testing them as well. I'm going to do some more grammar training today though, to see if I can improve the VR.

I also noticed that once you create an account at navigraph.com, you're able to purchase an annual data-only subscription - link for it appears on your account page. Data is apparently all you need for P2A and MSFS and it costs 30 Euros as opposed to the 82 Euros for the whole enchalada (unlimitted) sub. If I encounter issues I'll opt for a data sub, which amounts to about $40 in my country's currency.

 

stiletto2

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Re: 3rd Party ATC Alternatives?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2023, 04:05:11 PM »
kronovan,

I think your sceneries should be fine.  I have very little problem with P2A recognizing what I say.  Maybe it's  my midwestern US pronunciation that helps.  I have the "Speech Recongized Tone option" on so I know that P2A  has recognized my "instruction" as valid.

I do sometimes get caught with a "readback incorrect" response when requesting clearance but that is usually because I forgot to file the flight plan after connecting P2A to the sim.

I have one of my 4 screens just showing LittleNavMap and the P2A bottom ribbon (using Minimize Hot Key toggle and reducing screen to be just the P2A bottom section) which I can expand to the full P2A screen using the minimize hot key toggle when needed.  That P2A ribbon always shows me what the speech recongition engine is hearing in case there is any issue. See pic of my 4th window below.  Make sure you click on it so you can read the ATC.

Rod
« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 04:06:48 PM by stiletto2 »