Layering Issue?

[TooMuchFS]

I have just installed my old copy of Tongass Fjords X and the RTMM Add-on (P3Dv4) into P3Dv4.5 as per the excellent step by step Misty manual including the terrain.cfg modifications and had no error messages along the way.

I the placed the Orbx insertion points as per attached image, then ran P3D starting out from PAKT. I got severe layering issues (attached).

I then closed P3D, opened Orbx Central as Administrator, set insertion points again, got a succesful save, closed Orbx Central, reopened Central in Admin mode and resynced, closed Central. Then ran P3D again. Same issue. Moved to Klawock and everything looks fine. Moved to Annette Is. and 'sea' is all forest. Moved to the other part of the world, and the sea was desert! So problem appeared after RTMM install and layering - yet the insertion points appear correct.

Does anyone have any clues?!

Thanks
Peter

[nbrich1]

Hmmm, the top insertion point maybe incorrect Peter hence also your layering Orbx would be sitting on top in stead of RTMM sitting on top.

1. If you have Tongass installed "conventionally" in your P3Dv4, meaning set up in your sim scenery library with a higher priority over a lower priority entry, then the bottom insertion point would be correct. 

(If you have Tongass set up as an Add-on, then: refer to the RTMM add-on user guide page 11 - follow item b >>    b. 2- Create/add a phantom scenery entry-folder to be used for the ORBX Central BOTTOM insertion point.  Perhaps call it "OpenLC add-ons bottom"\add a sub folder “scenery”.


2. If you used the RTMM add-on, the zip file is extracted and creates the main folder "RTMM Add-on (P3Dv4)" and uses a xml file to direct the sim to find and load all the contents for the complete RTMM package.

The "RTMM Add-on (P3Dv4)" main folder, which contains everything, place this entire folder into your
default   x"\documents\Prepar3D v4 Add-ons   folder. 

Refer items a-f on page 11 of the user guide for setting the scenery blocks/insertion points:   

"  Create two new Scenery entries in your sim scenery library: These are empty but are used to set correct scenery blocks in your sim library.

a. Create/add a phantom scenery entry-folder to be used for the ORBX Central TOP insertion point.
Perhaps call it "3rd Party Top"\add a sub folder “scenery”.

b. 2- Create/add a phantom scenery entry-folder to be used for the ORBX Central BOTTOM insertion point.
Perhaps call it "OpenLC add-ons bottom"\add a sub folder “scenery”.

c. Go to Orbx Central - Settings > Insertion Points >> Scroll to/set the top insertion point as follows:
Orbx Region/Airports placed below: >> 3rd Party Top

d. Scroll to/set the bottom insertion point as follows: > Orbx OpenLC >> Placed below >> OpenLC add-ons bottom

e. Go to Orbx Central - Settings > Help tab > and select “Sync” >> “Sync” twice and then close Orbx Central.

f. Start sim and check your scenery library.. Orbx Regions/Airports should now be positioned below the entry “3rd Party Top” and the RTMM components should be above that “3rd Party Top” entry except for the RTMM World AI traffic and RTMM Global Scenery entries which are placed lower in the scenery library)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now your top insertion point as pictured, unless is a valid phantom scenery folder/entry which is used for the top insertion point for Orbx Central as per 11a) that entry is not correct-hence the problem. 

a. Create/add a phantom scenery entry-folder to be used for the ORBX Central TOP insertion point.
Perhaps call it "3rd Party Top"\add a sub folder “scenery”.


Then in Orbx Central you set the Top insertion point to >> 3rd Party Top
and the bottom insertion point to either >> Tongass Lower (If tongass is set up as conventional) OR
if Tongass is set up as an add-on set bottom insertion point to  >> OpenLC add-ons bottom

Results: 
Orbx Regions and Airports sit below RTMM. (RTMM on top)
Orbx Landclass sits below Tongass. (Tongass entries sit between Orbx LC and Orbx Regions/Airports

If everything checks out ok then there is one more option. But try that first. 

[Lipra]

Norm

This looks like the problem I had, looking at the pictures is it possible that its the same as in fsx.

[TooMuchFS]

Thanks Norm.

I added the extra folders and ran Central/Syc etc. as suggested, but it has made no difference.
In desperation I unchecked the RTMM and Tongass Fjfirds folders in the P3D Scenery Library and the issue remains.
Something has become very screwed up and now my general Orbx installations are impacted as all my ovenas are
not displaying correctly.

Any other ideas before I unsintall RTMM/Tongass and try to fix the Orbx side?

Peter

[nbrich1]

Yep... Will bet that Orbx Central has corrupted your terrain.cfg file or your scenery.cfg file or your lc.lookup.bgl has been replaced by another.

So:
Make a backup copy of your current terrain.cfg, scenery.cfg and lc.lookup.bgl first.

terrain.cfg and scenery.cfg are here: C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4

depending on how you have Orbx stuff set up the lclookup.bgl could either be in your sim:
in folder Scenery\BASE\Scenery\     or In ORBX Lib>> Scenery\BASE\Scenery\


(But there is step by step to fix that >>
Refer to Nick Cooper's doc at Orbx >> https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/189035-fix-for-blocks-andor-night-textures-in-orbx-global-base-or-open-lc-scenery/

That rebuilds your terrain.cfg file. 
But  > After which you have to do the 40 Tongass terrain entries again. (but at least any corruption in the terrain.cfg would be gone). 

I wouldn't be surprized if Orbx central hasn't messed up your scenery.cfg as well.  Do you have Orbx stuff in your root sim or by add-on? Tongass?

Same thing first back it up (copy), then rename scenery.cfg >> scenery.cfg.ORIG.OFF   
(scenery.cfg is folder:  C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4

Start sim to rebuild a new default scenery.cfg. (removes all the rest of the non-default entries). Add-ons will still load up. (You would have to re-add the tongass entries (high/Low) if you did Tongass as a conventional scenery add or any other scenery.cfg type entries.

PS: Anti virus stuff- turn off to run orbx central.. cause often time as previously mentioned it can suspect Orbx Central from making changes to the insertion points and mess up the sync.

Well a bit of messing around to do yet. Nothing lost at this point. Something is definitely messed up- just have to find out what.

Hope something in this helps Peter.

Norm

[TooMuchFS]

Thanks for your patience Norm, but things deteriorated after trying this.

I completed your list above as far as the link to Nic Coopers steps. After I completed Nic's steps including resyncing, P3D would CTD every time I try to start it.
It got as far as the opening screen, but gets hooked up when trying to display the aircraft librery and start location for a couple of minutes - CTD.

I replaced the new rebuilt terrain.cfg and lclookup.bgfl with the backups I took before trying this, and P3D at least starts again - albeit with the oceans looking like forests or deserts again.

As for the Tongass locations, Tongass is in Add-ons folder, while Orbx products are in root folder.

Cheers
Peter

[nbrich1]

Hmmm ok. 

You say Tongass as an Add-on. So then it is loaded directly by the sim. (No scenery.cfg entries). 

In that case you must specify a Layer # for both the higher and lower to match your ORBX entries in the scenery.cfg.

In the xml for Tongass you have two add two layer lines- on for the Higher entry and one in the Lower entry in the xml to force it in between the Orbx LC entries and the ORBX regions/airports. 
The layer # is a count up from the bottom. (Always work bottom up, not top down!).

Here is my Tongass xml. I also use addon.xml to fire it up. (No entries in the scenery.cfg).

But when I fire Tongass, it fires up defined it in my xml: So my Tongass Lower piece goes in at level at 152, and higher goes next up at 153. (152/153 matches in my system). Again have to work bottom up from the bottom of the displayed scenery lib in your sim (or top down in the scenery.cfg)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is my Tongass addon.xml file:


<SimBase.Document Type="AddOnXml" version="4,0" id="add-on">
    <AddOn.Name>Tongass Fjords X Scenery Package (FSADDON)</AddOn.Name>
    <AddOn.Description>Tongass Fjords X Scenery Package (FSADDON).</AddOn.Description>

     <AddOn.Component>
   <Category>Scenery</Category>
   <Path>Scenery\world\scenery</Path>
   <Name>Tongass Fjords World Elevation</Name>
        <Layer>6</Layer>     
     </AddOn.Component>

     <AddOn.Component>
         <Category>Texture</Category>
         <Path>Scenery\world\texture</Path>
         <Type>WORLD</Type>
     </AddOn.Component>

     <AddOn.Component>
         <Category>Scenery</Category>
    <Path>FSAddon\Tongass_Fjords\Tongass_Fjords_Lower_Priority</Path>
    <Name>Tongass_Fjords_Lower_Priority</Name>
         <Layer>152</Layer>
     </AddOn.Component>   

     <AddOn.Component>
     <Category>Scenery</Category>
     <Path>FSAddon\Tongass_Fjords\Tongass_Fjords_Higher_Priority</Path>
     <Name>Tongass_Fjords_Higher_Priority</Name>
          <Layer>153</Layer> 
     </AddOn.Component>

     <AddOn.Component>
        <Category>Effects</Category>
        <Path>Effects</Path>
     </AddOn.Component>

     <AddOn.Component>
        <Category>Sound</Category>
        <Path>Sound</Path>
     </AddOn.Component>

    <AddOn.Component>
        <Category>SimObjects</Category>
        <Path>SimObjects\Airplanes</Path>
    </AddOn.Component>

    <AddOn.Component>
        <Category>SimObjects</Category>
        <Path>SimObjects\Boats</Path>
    </AddOn.Component>

    <AddOn.Component>
        <Category>SimObjects</Category>
        <Path>SimObjects\Rotorcraft</Path>
    </AddOn.Component>

</SimBase.Document>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if you didn't have the   <Layer>152</Layer> line in then the sim adds the add-on to the top. But for Tongass this is incorrect as it has to be positioned above the Orbx LC entries and below all of the ORBX Regions and Airports. Then the RTMM stuff sits on the extreme top of everything. That is the correct order for the correct layering.

All of this is a bit confusing but once you get all the pieces it can be figured out. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So add the layer lines in Tongass to determine the position where they will appear in the order.  Create and Add a bottom Insertion  " OpenLC add-ons bottom\scenery” folder and manually position it's entry in the scenery lib to be just above the Orbx LC.  >> In Orbx Central, set the bottom Orbx insertion point. Orbx land class entries positioned below that OpenLC add-ons bottom\scenery” folder. 
That OpenLC add-ons bottom\ entry helps you determine the exact layer for where Tongass should be defined to be placed. (Right above the OpenLC add-ons bottom\scenery folder).

When done the Tongass Layer lines and insertion points.. again, (and the 40 Tongass entries), that should fix up your order and layering problem. 

(It takes a bit to figure out or diagnose what is happening without seeing it but hope now we have of the pieces exposed).   

Keep posted on progress Peter.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways try it and if a no go or you get stuck - we can try to get together.  We are not exactly just around the corner to be able for us to visit you being 11, 270 or so miles away and 13 hours difference, (You are GMT+8, I am GMT-5) but still I'm sure we can work it out using teamviewer remote (free) https://www.teamviewer.com/en-us/    and I have voice comms that we can use at Discord. Link:  https://discord.gg/GD58ZdD     also comms at Teamspeak. (But Discord is handier to send direct files if need be). 

Norm 

[TooMuchFS]

Thanks again Norm!

On working through the steps in your latest reply, I simultaneously checked everything along the way.

Lo and behold I found that the addon xml file in the Tongass Fjords folder was in fact the RTMM addon xml file! I have no idea how that happened, but I swapped it out with your xml file contents.

When adding the Tongass entires to the terrain.cfg file, I spotted an error in the heading lines and also corrected that.

Now P3D is running normally again with correct layering - yay! I then added the pair of Tongass folders into the sceney library and testing shows Tongass is now also working  - doube yay!

Almost there, I then added the RTMM folder to the Scenery Library (at the top) - but it was quickly obvious that no RTMM scenery was showing.
I've left it that point so I have some hair left and will continue tomorrow.

In the interim I have two questions:
1. What is the purpose of the two xml files (one on Tongass folders and one in RTMM folders).
2. The RTMM folders contain subfolders such as Effects, Sound etc. In days of old, I would simply just add them the relevant FSX folder and all seemd to work. Does P3D load these from the RTMM folder instead?

Many thanks again for your patience - I really would like to get back into Misty and seemingly can't manage it wioth your help!

Cheers
Peter

[nbrich1]

You almost there Peter..

The RTMM Add-on.zip extracts to RTMM Add-on (P3Dv4) and that folder gets placed in your 
x:\Documents\Prepar3D v4 Add-ons\  folder.

Just in case you need the RTMM add-on.xml file again it is attached to this post. (Unzip and place in your
x:\Documents\Prepar3D v4 Add-ons\RTMM Add-on (P3Dv4) folder. 

Start the sim and there will be a enable RTMM Scenery pop-up. Say yes to enable and your done. (Say no and the scenery will still be tabled but it will not be loaded by the sim).

Each "Add-on" as it is referred to, can be any type of add-on component or add content for the sim.

i built the "RTMM Add-on" and the file in that main folder, add-on.xml. This add-on.xml file directs the sim to see and to be able to load all required RTMM components from all the the scenery components to the required Effects, Simobjects and sounds files that are contained in that add-on package.  (So that is the RTMM Add-on Package. (It is complete and a stand alone-meaning you don't need any other RTMM components- all of it is there and works if the add-on is enabled in your sism.)

Similarly, if the Tongass X, (Or any other type of add-on component can be built to work. The package is assembled then the add-on.xml file (something like a scenery.cfg file), defines all the paths and components in the package. And P3Dv4 (or 5) will read that file and has the ability to load it as scenery or effects or simobjects or sounds etc.   BUt each add-on requires a defining Add-on.xml file which directs the sim to find and load the defined components.

This system or method ,is called xml method, and the add-on xml is file used to describe data, in this case for the sim, as to what to what type or component to load, where to find it, and in the case of scenery, where to place it in the scenery order.).   

So Tongass if built as an add-on it requires a defining add-on.xml which defines all of the components that you want to load. (Mine is self contained in my add-on hence my add-on.xml contains all of the components.
   
1. Each add-on, however built, requires it's own defining add-on.xml.  Yes there is one for the RTMM Add-on, there is one inside the Tongass Add-on.

2. Yes, one can have all add-on components outside the sim. Orbx as well as most other devs do all of there scenery this way. IE: A2A etc.  There is no "inside" the sim anymore and hasn't been for a few years now. 
All add-on stuff is usually located away from the sim and the add-xml file in each add-on directs the sim to find them and load them.

Benefits: The integrity of the installed sim stays intact. The end user doesn't have to play with it similarly
if the add-on pieces are correctly built and defined and located outside the sim, their integrity is maintained and the end user doesn't have to touch it. And it works without issue.

The most obvious one is, if you ever had to re-install your sim for any reason you can do that without loosing one add-on piece because they are located not under the sim root but can be off on a separate drive and are totally outside the sim.(And this applies not only to scenery but for all components: effects, sounds, simobjects, gauges etc etc.. (And after a new install or re-install, when you startup your sim all your add components are generated in the sim).

Take a read of the P3D SDK for Add-ons. That will give additional insight to the xml method for add-ons.

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/LearningCenter.php

Hope this has been helpful and insightful. You're almost there.

Norm

[TooMuchFS]

Thanks to Norm, Misty's Place now appears before my eyes!
I'll do some more testing, but I think this has nailed it.

The the entire issue seems to have been it was looking in the wrong place for my setup (my P3D Addons is at S:P3D Addons, not the default C:/Documents location).
So a tweak to the xml file redirected all the bits and they now talk happily to each other.

I hope this helps some others!

Many thanks yet again Norm.

Cheers
Peter

[nbrich1]

Lets summarize this and the solution.

The default Prepar3D v4 Add-ons location is at location >>  drive:\Documents\Prepar3D v4 Add-ons\

So if an add-on is in that folder it will be read by the sim.. (If there is a valid add-on.xml file in an add-on folder..

Now the curve. If you don't have your add-ons in the default  drive:\documents\Prepar3D v4 Add-ons\
or drive:\documents\Prepar3D v5 Add-ons\   folders then you MUST direct the sim to that alternate location(s) or the sim won't the add-on.

IF in Peter's case, all, or some of your add-ons are not in the default add-on location (as was the case in Peter's set up (His on S: drive in folder \P3Dv4 Add-ons

Then you must force or direct the sim to see the designated custom add-on folder location.

To do this you need to add a discovery path entry in the add-ons.CFG file located in
hidden folder  C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4.

In Peters case the entry would read:

IE:  add the following:

[DiscoveryPath.x]                    <<< (where x = the next DiscoveryPath. entry number]
PATH=S:\P3Dv4 Addons\
TITLE=P3Dv4 Addons
ACTIVE=true
REQUIRED=false 

Save the file. Then start the sim and it should now read the S:\P3Dv4 Addons\ as specified in the add-on.cfg and reads the valid add-on.xml files for any add-ons inside that drive\folder location as well as the default location. 

So anyone who want their add-ons on another drive or folder that is not the sim's default add-on location add a discovery path entry to direct the sim to scan that location for add-ons.

Problem solved.