Author Topic: P3D V4 - Smoke  (Read 4805 times)

Doug

  • Misty Moorings Site Admin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4,186
    • Return to Misty Moorings
P3D V4 - Smoke
« on: October 30, 2017, 02:32:18 PM »
All ..

We've discovered an interesting anomaly in a couple of our objects with "smoke".  One of them is a little "smoking" cabin that we actually miniaturize and place at the exit of the smokestack of a cabin to add smoke to that object.  With P3D V4, some of these objects, when you are greater than about 50 yards from the object, the smoke appears about 20 feet ABOVE the smokestack. If you slew closer, the smoke will suddenly begin from where it is supposed to. This is not a "big deal" and we are fixing it as we go by using Rod's smoke object that doesn't have this behavior.

If you see one of these, let us know here or via "contact@mistymoorings.com" and I'll put it onto the list to fix.
  • (Right now I can't fix anything because of the Win 10 update that wiped out P3D V3 ... and Instant Scenery 3 is not yet 64 bit, so only works with V3. The fix is coming from Windows on Nov 14 and we can begin work on these).
So "if you see something, say something" :-)

Thank you
Doug

nbrich1

  • Misty Moorings Team
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,462
  • Misty Flying Club VA, Sim Troubleshooting & Help
    • Misty Flying Club (MFC)
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2017, 04:55:18 PM »
Got it Doug.. will keep an smokin' eye out or two for a smokin' anomaly.
Norm
Regards from Toronto, Canada. Home Airport CYYZ.
^----------------- Misty Flying Club -----------------^

rgerdes

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2017, 06:44:34 PM »
Hi Doug,
Yes Bay lodge and Taku lodge also have this problem.
I may have mentioned it in a previous post but can't remember for sure  :-\
Bob

Doug

  • Misty Moorings Site Admin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4,186
    • Return to Misty Moorings
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2017, 07:40:32 PM »
Got it Bob ... thank you, they are now on the list.  I'm re-flying all of the RTMM Flight Plan.zip routes, so I'm checking each one as I go and adding them to the list. But hopefully these will be fixed by the time I get to them ... thank you.  (Also, Thanks Norm).

ualani

  • Misty Moorings Team
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,739
  • Legacy RTMM Library Manager
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2017, 09:57:53 AM »
Just an FYI. When working on this problem with Doug a few days ago, I discovered that this problem doesn't exist in FSX and appears to only be a P3D related issue. Thinking about this logically, those cabins were created and placed long before P3D was around, and if the problem existed in FSX then A.) It wouldn't have been posted that way, and B.) if it had been, it would surely have been reported and fixed long ago.

Steve
Legacy RTMM Library Manager
Custom Objects Design
Legacy Scenery Design
Support


Doug

  • Misty Moorings Site Admin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4,186
    • Return to Misty Moorings
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2017, 10:29:20 AM »
Thank you, a good point.

D

Buschpilot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2017, 03:25:29 PM »
Hello Doug,
I am new here and would like to apologize for my bad English.

Now to my request.
Please do not place the smoke effect over the reduced cabin again.
Otherwise, there may be problems after the next P3D update.

Better to stick to the SDK (http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/LearningCenter.php), then you have the work of adjusting the smoke effects only once.

It's not that difficult either.


The whole thing goes like this (using the example of Yes_Bay_Lodge) ...

Step 1
- remove the reduced Cabin for the smoke effect from the Scenery-BGL (PLC_78K_Yes_Bay_Lodge.bgl) and save it again ...

Step 2
- create an XML file for the placement of the smoke effect and give it a descriptive name (here "FX_78K_Yes_Bay_Lodge_Smoke.xml") ...

Here is the XML code for Yes_Bay_Lodge:
Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<FSData
   version="9.0"
   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
   xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
   <SceneryObject
      lat="55.9161722660065"
      lon="-131.797451376915"
      alt="42.999F"
      altitudeIsAgl="TRUE"
      pitch="0"
      bank="0"
      heading="0"
      imageComplexity="NORMAL">
      <Effect
         effectName="fx_ChimneySmoke"
         effectParams=""/>
   </SceneryObject>
   <SceneryObject
      lat="55.9162101522088"
      lon="-131.797293126583"
      alt="48.999F"
      altitudeIsAgl="TRUE"
      pitch="0"
      bank="0"
      heading="0"
      imageComplexity="NORMAL">
      <Effect
         effectName="fx_ChimneySmoke"
         effectParams=""/>
   </SceneryObject>
</FSData>

•lat=  The latitude where you want to place the effect.  This is in decimal degrees.
•lon=  The longitude where you want to place the effect.  This is in decimal degrees.
•alt=  The altitude at which you want the effect to spawn (AGL in feet).

The XML code can also be used for other sceneries, but it must be adapted accordingly.

Step 3
- Compile the created XML file into a BGL file...

To compile the XML file I use the program "Xml2Bgl" from here (http://www.scruffyduck.org/xml2bgl/4584282782)...

Move the created BGL file (in this case "FX_78K_Yes_Bay_Lodge_Smoke.bgl") into the Scenery folder of Yes_Bay_Lodge.
Then start the P3D and assess the result.

Here before the change to the Yes_Bay_Lodge...



And here after the change to the Yes_Bay_Lodge...



In this context, I have also adjusted the height of the bridge with me.
Best regards
Mike

Doug

  • Misty Moorings Site Admin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4,186
    • Return to Misty Moorings
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2017, 03:40:02 PM »
Thank you!  Rod Jackson has made us a smoke object that seems to be compatible, I believe using a similar technique, and we'll be trying it. (I'll let him comment).  But I'm interested in trying what you have given us here also.  I'm up to "Brad's BBQ" in flying all of the routes, I'm running all of them (starting with the A's), and making notes on this problem. I've found 23 such problems and I'm still in the B's.  So we will not be using the miniaturized cabin in the future, all of those will be gone ... and we need to do what you are saying so we don't have to do this 400 times every time a new update comes out. It will be interesting to hear from Rob, maybe the same xml?

There is also a cabin, already with smoke, that is different from this one we miniaturized, that doesn't seem to show the problem. I won't miniaturize it, but may actually use it to replace a cabin that has no smoke. That's another possibility. We're going to be careful on our "fix" because changing all of this, as you pointed out, is very time-consuming.
 
The other aggravation right now is that the Win 10 update in Oct blew away my P3D V3.5 and the IS3 program I use with it.  Windows isn't going to have an update that will fix it until Nov. 14th ... so there's not a thing I can do until I get that capability back. This gives us time to think this through carefully.

Thank you so much for this post ... much appreciated. I have a lot of work ahead of me getting all of these fixed and ideas from folks looking over my shoulder are a blessing! Posts like yours and being on a team of RTMM experts both make my day easier.

Doug/RTMM

stiletto2

  • Misty Moorings Team
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2,342
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2017, 04:18:10 PM »
Hey Mike,

That is pretty good English as far as I am concerned.   Thanks for the thoughts about using XML to directly place the effects.  I created an effect attached to a very small object so that it would still work since significant reduction is not required.  That makes it easier for quick placement by Instant Scenery rather than having to do XML placement.  We do use XML placement for things like Windsocks, Fuel triggers etc. 

On a different note, are you at all experienced in modifying .fx files.  If so , would you be interested in doing some work on waterfall effect modifications?  If so, PM me.

Welcome to the Forum!

Rod

Dieter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 930
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2017, 02:08:42 AM »
Well, I may add that Mike is not really new to RTMM.
He's the author of many excellent sceneries that are applicable here and he also reworked former FS2004 sceneries make them ready for FSX and P3D like

- Bear Camp Research
- Devil's Arse
- Moh Creek
- Wood Lake
- Maloney's Tavern
- S.I.R.P.

Mike, you musn't hide your light under a bushel!

Many greetings
Dieter

Intel(r) Core(TM) i7-7700K CPU 4,5 GHz - MSI Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 - RAM 16GB - 3 SSD je 500GB - 1 SSD 1TB - 1 HD 1TB - Win10 Pro 64 bit - MSFS Premium Deluxe - Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog - Thrustmaster TFRP Pedals

stiletto2

  • Misty Moorings Team
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2,342
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2017, 07:33:42 AM »
Hi Dieter,

Thanks for letting us know which Mike this is.  His scenery development talent is excellent.  We definitely have enjoyed and continue to enjoy his past scenery submissions.  I would love to see additional contributions from Mike in the future.

Rod 

Doug

  • Misty Moorings Site Admin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4,186
    • Return to Misty Moorings
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2017, 09:34:44 AM »
I've put Mike's xml into the Designer's Corner so we'll have it. (Thanks Mike!)

I'm at Brad's BBQ in checking the routes/sceneries ... I've found 28 cabins (smoke) that have to be repaired. This is going to be a very big problem, but we'll get it.  Again, I cannot start the repairs until the Nov 14 Win Update which will unlock P3D V3.5.

Buschpilot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2017, 02:39:11 PM »
Hello Rod,
Please check your small object with attached smoke at different airport heights.
In the flight simulators since the FSX (or even earlier) there is a bug.
Which attached effects are no longer placed at the intended location on the object.

The higher the object with the effect is placed, the greater the deviation of the effect.
In most cases the deviation is visible from a height of 2500ft above sea level (MSL).


For better illustration, I placed a test object ("gen_tv01", a standard MS object) at different heights.
The tower has an attached effect at the top (a red flashing light).

The test object placed in Petersburg (PAPG) ...
The ground here has a height of 96ft (MSL).

Side view ...


Top view…


As you can see, everything fits very well.

Test object placed in Porcupine Camp (SIRP) ...
The ground here has a height of 5960ft (MSL).

Side view ...


Top view…


Here's the whole thing now looks different.


This bug is probably due to the fact that the developers of MS at that time tried to represent the flight simulator world as a globe.
In P3Dv4 this bug is still available.

My thoughts are here with Doug.
He is doing a lot of work.

If required, I will gladly provide my modified smoke effects (Yes Bay Lodge, Taku Lodge, Gilbert Bay, Misty's Place).
And I can also help with the further modifications of the smoke effects.

With me there is an extra Bgl file for the smoke effects, because I use the XML file as a basis.
Best regards
Mike

ualani

  • Misty Moorings Team
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,739
  • Legacy RTMM Library Manager
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2017, 03:00:33 PM »
If you use an unconverted object outside of our FSXP3D libraries, such as in your example, you will get the effect offset at increasing altitudes that you illustrate. This has been discussed previously and is a well known phenomenon. It has nothing to do with the FSX developers trying to design the FSX world as a globe, but with the way that post SP2 objects were compiled. We developed a proprietary way of overcoming this problem when the FSXP3D libraries were being converted.

Steve
Legacy RTMM Library Manager
Custom Objects Design
Legacy Scenery Design
Support


Doug

  • Misty Moorings Site Admin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4,186
    • Return to Misty Moorings
Re: P3D V4 - Smoke
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2017, 03:05:04 PM »
Over 35 "fixes" so far on the "to do" list ... and I'm only to Brad's BBQ Cornwall Point.  You can see the smoke offset with the miniaturized cabin (which we will be replacing). But what we are seeing here is completely different than the "detaching" kind of offset we see with altitude. This one happens at sea level (as is with this screenshot) and the object is placed exactly the same distance and offset regardless of the altitude. If you move closer to the object, at about 50 yards, it suddenly re-positions to where it should be. (This is going to take a LOT of work to fix). But it was a pretty flight in the blowing snow.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 03:08:37 PM by Doug »