Working on the boats.

[jeff3163]

Ohayougozaimasu!

Thanks.  I don't think I've ever seen it written.  It's one word?  I only know a half a dozen words, anyway. 
This is the FS Host client and Teamspeak info for my thursday flights. *Info outdated and expired.

midav.hopto.org port: 23459 password: (none) TeamSpeak IP: 174.133.247.18:8814 (Alt IP: 216.86.148.174:8860)

[marc2140]

Hello
Since about a week I have started to add some water projects to my fsx.
When you start with boats, you quickly run into the need of a good autopilot. That's very difficult to find, but I thought that the RTMM Nav Stack would be the solution.
I downloaded it, try to install in on one of my ships, but with no result.
Attached picture of what I see . I wanted to add my panel cfg file, but I get the message that I cannot attach that kind of file.
I also get the impression that I am missing gauges.
Can anyone give me a solution?
Cheers
Marcel

[jeff3163]

Hello Marcel,
     The Nav-stack is my favorite panel, and I use it in any vehicle I can.  I have some that are modified for amphib planes, having a water rudder switch.  But Doug's Nav-stack panel from this thread is what you want for the boats.  It does look like you're missing a gauge.  The nav-stack panel is a rectangular area (or panel) that contains space to hold the gauges in.  There are several gauges in the various versions I have.  I believe we tried to keep the gauges generic or universal, except for "maybe" an F-111 autopilot, which we can help you obtain. 

To make a long story short, . . . I can help you with your problem. 

About the boat autopilot, have you read this thread?  It is about that very topic.  There is more to do, than just install the nav-stack panel.  You must also activate the boats autopilot in its config file.  If you don't like steering with your rudder pedals, there is a fix for that also, in the aircraft.cfg file, to switch to ailerons which means steering with the yoke.

These are the gauges used in Doug's Nav-stack.  You need to have the gauges for the Beach Baron, Cessna 208, and Scirocco GTX.  The Scirocco GTX gauges are included in the zip for you.  Please read the "readme" file that is included in the zip.  Although, how could you not?  That is where the panel.cfg info is at.   

gauge00=Minipnl!AUTOPILOT F-111,   22, 267, 134, 30
gauge01=Beech_Baron!Nav GPS Switch, 3,266,15,31
gauge02=Cessna208!Water-Rudder,  0,20,20,20
gauge03=Fs9gps!gps_500,  0,132,157,130
gauge04=sirocco_gtx2!speed_indicator,  8,76,40,52
gauge05=Magnetic_Compass!Magnetic-Compass,57,76,42,53
gauge06=Cessna!Heading_Indicator,    105,76,46,55


Back in 2011, when we wrote this thread I tweaked the autopilot of my Malibu boat.  I discussed the process in this thread.  Maybe you can get some insight from it before starting your project.

Good Luck.   

[marc2140]

Thanks for the reply.
I'll try to find my way, but it is kind of hard to catch up with the 100 items that describe the whole process of coming to Doug's Nav Stack.
I managed to download and install the Sirocco Auto Pilot Nav Stack and tried it out.
I must say that I am not very convinced. I tried it out in the trip from the Bella Coola marina to Ocean Falls, but I often had to stop and correct manually, switch then to "heading" and when I was back on track again, use the Nav button again.
Is Doug's Stack any better? Or are there other things I need to change in the configuration of the ships? Does it help when you reduce speed to avoid the auto pilot to get "out of bounds"?
But maybe I first try to get the correct gauges. I don't think I have the F-111 autopilot minipanel. Could you tell me where to find it?
Thx
Marcel

[jeff3163]

I had great success getting the autopilot to track with my Malibu ski boat, and the North Star tugboat.  But many boats don't work so great on autopilot.  There are so many variables that affect turning radius and rudder effectiveness.  You can see by the thread that I spent some time experimenting with different settings.  The "Nav-Stack" does nothing to help the autopilot, except give you the actual autopilot device to use.  The magic is in the numbers of the boat's aircraft.cfg autopilot section.  I have boats that I could not get the AP to work at all.  The Deltasim Maltese Falcon is one.  It actually turns the opposite way to the desired direction of travel.  So keep that in mind.  Actually, I don't think I had much success with the Scirocco GTX either.  My Malibu works the best.  It tracks great, and stays right on beam. 

Unzip this file and add this minipnl.cab file to your gauges folder.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhmi7fua6eyddod/MiniPnl.zip?dl=0

[marc2140]

Thank you Jeff for the file.
I'll try it out and see what is does.
Regarding the aircraft.cfg files, are there any guidelines if i want to experiment a bit, or is it just a shot in the dark? Are there any other autopilot settings where we can learn something from (maybe Helo's or cars, trucks, etc.)?
I will also try and work my way thru the complete thread, and see what I can make from it.
cheers
Marcel

[jeff3163]

It was the year 2011 when I did this, and haven't really thought much about it since.  I can show a copy of my Malibu autopilot section, which works great for my Malibu.  No claim that it will work on other boats though.  Always back up your original files, just in case. 

Contact Points-I added a pair of water rudders for better turning.

[contact_points]
;/1  Class  (0 = None, 1 = Wheel, 2 = Scrape, 3 = Skid, 4 = Float, 5 = Water Rudder)
;/2  Longitudinal Position        (feet)
;/3  Lateral Position             (feet)
;/4  Vertical Position            (feet)
;/5  Impact Damage Threshold      (Feet Per Minute)
;/6  Brake Map                   (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
;/7  Wheel Radius                (feet)
;/8  Steer Angle                         (degrees)
;/9  Static Compression          (feet)  (0 if rigid)
;/10 Max/Static Compression Ratio
;/11 Damping Ratio / Water Rudder Effectiveness  (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped) / 1.0 = normal
;/12 Extension Time              (seconds)
;/13 Retraction Time             (seconds)
;/14 Sound Type
;/15 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
;/16 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)
//      1       2           3          4        5     6       7       8       9     10      11       12    13    14    15    16

point.0= 4, 12.000, -1.200, -0.500, 9600, 0, 0.000, 20.000, 0.100, 1.000, 1.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0
point.1= 4, 12.000, 1.200, -0.500, 9600, 0, 0.000, 20.000, 0.100, 1.000, 1.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0
point.2= 4, -15.000, -2.400, -0.850, 9600, 0, 0.000, 20.000, 0.100, 1.000, 9.200, 0.000, 0.000, 0
point.3= 4, -15.000, 2.400, -0.850, 9600, 0, 0.000, 20.000, 0.100, 1.000, 9.200, 0.000, 0.000, 0
point.4= 5, -15.000, -2.400, -0.850, 9600, 0, 0.000, 40.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.600, 0.500, 0.500, 0
point.5= 5, -15.000, 2.400, -0.850, 9600, 0, 0.000, 40.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.600, 0.500, 0.500, 0
point.6= 1, 0.000, 0.000, -0.900, 0, 0, 0.300, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 1.000, 0

max_number_of_points=9

 

Added command to translate aileron to the rudders for yoke steering. (aileron to rudder scale)

[airplane_geometry]
wing_area=444
wing_span=130
wing_root_chord= 6.400
wing_dihedral= 3.900
wing_incidence= 2.500
wing_twist= -1.700
oswald_efficiency_factor= 0.700
wing_winglets_flag= 0
wing_sweep= 2.960
wing_pos_apex_lon= -12.300
wing_pos_apex_vert= 0.000
htail_area= 1.000
htail_span= 1.000
htail_pos_lon= -27.800
htail_pos_vert= 0.000
htail_incidence= 2.000
htail_sweep= 5.000
vtail_area= 58.000
vtail_span= 14.800
vtail_sweep= 45.000
vtail_pos_lon= -25.700
vtail_pos_vert= 1.000
elevator_area= 16.600
aileron_area=160.000
rudder_area=400.000
elevator_up_limit= 28.00
elevator_down_limit= 21.00
aileron_up_limit= 70.0
aileron_down_limit= 70.0
rudder_limit= 45.0
elevator_trim_limit= 19.500
spoiler_limit= 20.000
spoilerons_available= 1
aileron_to_spoileron_gain= 2.000
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons= 0.000
min_flaps_for_spoilerons= 0.000
spoiler_handle_available=1
auto_spoiler_available=1
spoiler_extension_time=0.200000
positive_g_limit_flaps_up=4.000000
positive_g_limit_flaps_down=2.000000
negative_g_limit_flaps_up=-1.500000
negative_g_limit_flaps_down=-1.500000
aileron_to_rudder_scale=1.0 (Links ailerons to rudders)

My DeltaSim Malibu speedboat autopilot section (tuned to 40 knots cruise)

[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=0001.0 // 1000.000000
autothrottle_available=1
pitch_takeoff_ga=8.000000
max_pitch= 1.0000000
max_pitch_acceleration= 10.000000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt= 20.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt= 1.500000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint= 20000.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint= 28000.000000
max_bank=6.20 // 20
max_bank_acceleration=1.800000 //The maximum angular bank acceleration, in degrees per second squared, that the autopilot will command left or right.
max_bank_velocity=3.000000 //The maximum angular bank velocity, in degrees per second, which the autopilot will command left or right.
max_throttle_rate=0.999999
nav_proportional_control=30.0 // 9.000000 // Proportional controller constant in lateral navigation modes.
nav_integrator_control=0.250000 // Integral controller constant in lateral navigation modes.
nav_derivative_control=0.005000 // Derivative controller constant in lateral navigation modes.
nav_integrator_boundary=1.2500  // 2.500000 // The boundary, or maximum signal error, in degrees in which the integrator function is active. In the example, the integrator is active when the error is between -2.5 and +2.5 degrees from the centerline of the navigation signal.
nav_derivative_boundary=1.000  // 0.000000 // The boundary, or maximum signal error, in degrees in which the derivative function is active. In the example, the derivative controller is not active because the maximum error is set to 0.
gs_proportional_control=9.520000
gs_integrator_control=0.260000
gs_derivative_control=0.000000
gs_integrator_boundary=0.700000
gs_derivative_boundary=0.000000
yaw_damper_gain=1.000000
autothrottle_arming_required=0
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=0
autothrottle_max_rpm=1000000
default_bank_mode=0
direction_indicator=0
attitude_indicator=0
use_no_default_bank=1
use_no_default_pitch=1
default_pitch_mode=0
yaw_slip_control_gain=0.000000
yaw_control_uses_trim=0.000000

Good Luck!   

[marc2140]

That'll keep me busy for some time....(lol).
Thanks, If I come any further, I'll let you know.
Marcel

[marc2140]

I had my first minor success today, Jeff.
I downloaded the Jelair ottopilot at:
http://www.fs-shipyards.org/index.php?ind=downloads&op=section_view&idev=13
It is an fs2004 gauge.
Then I downloaded the "High sea salvage tugboat A.Bourbon" (don't know exactly where anymore), and after some trial and error I managed to get the gauge fixed in the boat. (putting the cab file directly in the gauge folder, and adapting the gauge reference in the panel text.
I tried it out with a flightplan from Juneau to Skagway (because of the somewhat larger water) and guess what: it worked. The autopilot was very reactive and kept the track rather well.
This is what it looked like. A bit primitive, I agree, but it gives me courage to continue. A small applause is welcome after all these hours...
cheers
Marcel

[jeff3163]

Yes, it has it's exhilarating moments.  Each corner is a nail-biter.  Try navigating a narrow dogleg channel, or plotting course changes through an island chain.  A tight steering AP is sweet.  Congrats on getting it going.   

It's nice to have a boater around here.  It gets lonely sometimes, just Doug and I.  The boaters are a quiet lot.  Many, many hits on the website.  But nobody ever talks about it.  Funny.   

[Doug]

Jellaire Autopilot

Well this is really great, good find! (Thank you Marcel!!!). Rod "altered" the background for the gauge a little to give it a "wooden" background, but other than that, this is the original gauge.  I've attached a zip with the revised background.  The instructions for using the gauge are in the zip.  I've also attached a zip of my present panel.cfg for the Smitt Rotterdam (DeltaSim) if anybody wants it, but this should work on any of the boats if you have any of the DeltaSim boats.

This is a great addition for the boats area of RTMM.  Now to figure out a sail plan without needing to start on a runway! :-)

Doug

PS ... for the new folks, click on the picture and it will enlarge, click again and it goes back.

[stiletto2]

Hi Doug,

I see a download option for the panel.cfg and for the .jpg pic.   There is no zip for the revised .cab that I can see. 

Rod

[Doug]

OK, it is on there now, Rod. Thank you.  I just, for the fun of it, made a "sail plan" from Misty's Place to Port Protection using Plan G and using the SPBs as start, finish points. Sailing it now, really works great so far.  This opens up a whole new aspect for us using the boats at RTMM.

[stiletto2]

Hi Doug,

Yes, I see the zip now.   Also, you are right about other possibilities. One word of caution on your panel.cfg.
These configs are pretty specific to each model set since they have specialized gauges.  For example, your panel.cfg as provided will not work properly with my DeltaSim Malibu 32.

Rod 

[Doug]

OK, so one will have to be for "each" one.  Tell me, do you have the Smitt Rotterdam? We'll have to label them for each of the boats we are using. Good idea.

D