Author Topic: Working on the boats.  (Read 491149 times)

Doug

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2011, 08:19:29 PM »
Rob, if you get one, get the Malibu, that's the only one that is "reliable" at this point.  Jeff is making progress on the others, but I'm pulling my hair out with the "tug" today.  But I can get the Malibu to track all the way from Prince Rupert to Hartley Bay, and then from Hartley down to Bella Bella ... no problems. If we could just get one of the bigger boats to do so well, then we'd be set.  If you look over on the other forums, people "talk" about it, but nobody has been able to accomplish what Jeff has so far.  One guy said we already have autopilot, just hit CTRL-H.  Yeah ... and guess what, the heading doesn't change, but don't hit it and it doesn't change either! But if you put a heading gauge in a minipanel and try to hit control H ... it WILL not change, so that's bogus.

The darned things are just airplanes without wings ... too bad somebody can't "model" a boat for FSX. I wrote to DeltaSim, the only guy really selling these things ... he said he was "too busy" to work on the autopilot. Oh me.  Well, back to the workshop.

D

jeff3163

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2011, 01:12:18 AM »
Doug,
     I was ready to post my configs first thing this morning, then remembered that I needed to copy the "tower Malibu's" config to the regular Malibu's file, so I did.  Oops!!!  Something went wrong, and I had to start all over with the configs from the zip file.  I had to re-tune one, (the tower model), and transfer the appropriate info to the other.  Now it's 9:30 pm, and the final test run is under way.  I went back and fine tuned the driveability factors while I was there, and balanced them out with the "autopilot mode".  (You can get it tracking great, and switch to manual mode and it drives like crap.)  Now I can control the cornering much better.  So now it's at a happy medium.  I was driving around some little islands just before Bella Bella, doing "barrel races" style turns around them and the handling is pretty good now.  The autopilot still takes its time making turns, but if you "honk your horn" just before the sharper corners, it will slow down for the corner.  Then, honk again if you want to speed back up.  I was cruising on autopilot for part of a run at 35-40 knots (rpm's at 2000, and horn honked) for about 15 to 20 miles.  It worked just fine, but was a little too slow for my taste.
     Sorry to hear that the Deltasim guy doesn't have the time for the autopilot.  He does make good boats though.
     I think the Malibu's are acceptable now, so I'll post those soon.  I need to make a readme file for them.  Then I'll concentrate on the Smit-Rotterdam. 

I've been able to post a couple more videos, but it's hit and miss.  I thought I'd take snapshots instead.  Here's some pics of one of my tugs pulling the QM2.  (All I'm missing is the big tow-rope from the ship to the tug.)



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« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 01:17:21 AM by jeff3163 »

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jeff3163

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2011, 02:57:25 AM »
Ok, if you're following the thread, and you like your updates in progressive order, here is another link to the updated Malibu configs.  As of March 27, 2011, at 11:43 pm PST, these are working pretty good now.  (I also updated the other two links in this thread(replies #8, and #17) with the new versions.)  Any BETA testers out there?  Try these out with Doug's sailplans, and enjoy the scenery from a boat, without having to pay attention to your driving. (well, not too much anyway.)  I gotta go to bed!!

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« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 09:21:22 AM by jeff3163 »

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Doug

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2011, 07:57:09 AM »
THE MOORINGS - (Alpha Page)

For the "boaters among us" ... I've got an "alpha" page I'm working on for the boating enthusiasts.  It is at http://www.return.mistymoorings.com/moorings/ (not linked to any of the pages).  It is far from finished, but it is taking shape. We will be posting Jeff's Tuneups there in the "Marine Maintenance Shop" along with some other things we're working on. If you have any ideas for it, let us know.

I put this up because we keep referring to the cruises, and I actually have them posted on the alpha page. So you folks can bookmark that one and try out the cruises if you like, they are all operational. You can click on the zip to get the "Flight Plan" which we are calling a "sail plan" ... so you can keep these separate in your FSX Documents library, their naming will be like this:  VHR SP Misty's Place to Wrangell ... the SP will tell you it comes from The Moorings.  The Map gives you a quick overview of the trip and the Trip Tic is for boating. 

There are a couple of ways to do the cruises. The Malibu on autopilot is terrific. (I watch the minipanel and keep my speed at 60 mph and it tracks perfectly).  But for the larger boats like the tug, another way is also fun. You actually use the chart. At a waypoint, you look at your next course heading and set it arriving at the next one and changing again. This is pretty realistic and I've tried to make the waypoint the nav buoys and all are named after features.  The cruises look "easy" but the Grenville Cruise took about 8 hours to complete.

FSDiscover! is a big help for you and makes viewing the landscape far more interesting because you know the names of things. I put in over 40 data points on the Grenville cruise, 30 some for Hartley to Bella. As I do a cruise, I make sure I've got the major features in there (using My Topo) and then the waypoint names are realistic. Using FSDiscover! I set the options for about 5 miles distance.  Also, if you make the POI (Points of Interest) a different color, then you can see all the things we've added for you.  Any data point showing up from us has an (MM) after it or (MC) for the USFS cabins. (So if you see an error on one, you'll know it's from us ... conversely, if you see an error and that is not present, then the error is in the global database ... and there are errors ... I've listed those I've found at the bottom of the dat file). If you go to the map page and click on the Quick Find Data Base and you'll see all the way points I've put into the rtmm dat file.

The "My Topo" people have done a great job with thier web page and we've found a little trick they've added there. You can get the url for the exact map you are viewing by clicking on a small link. For the cruises, there are some tricky approaches ... so we now can list those. Clicking on those in the navigation area gives you a close up of a target area. Since the Trip Tics (Sail Plans) are web-based, I may start putting links to critical areas right inside them.

Again, this is all experimental. But if you are interested in trying one ... I suggest getting the Malibu and giving it a try.  On the longer cruises (Grenville Channel) ... I put the sim rate on X2 to speed it up a little. But as Jeff says, what you don't want to miss is the scenery along the way.

It is amazing how the "point of view" really changes PFJ.  When you are down on the water, the landscape and topography come alive. Just going down the Grenville, you won't believe how the land changes, and of course the mountains are magnificent when you are looking "up" at them. 

This truly is a whole new experience for those that like it.  We are making The Moorings page to keep the boating separate from the flying. I didn't want flight plans and sail plans to get all mixed into the same bag. 

Again, if you have ideas for the alpha, let us know.

Doug


jeff3163

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2011, 02:36:20 AM »
Doug,
     Try this.  The tug is working great for me now.  See what you think.

(sorry to be so short, but it's 11:30 pm, and I'm off to bed.)  I just cruised from Hartley to Bella Bella, hands free, except for one spot, the channel was too narrow after the 35 degree turn.  I even made it around Mckay, which is a 65 degree corner.  (and at 35-45 knots too.)

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Doug

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2011, 09:50:42 AM »
Jeff ... it looks good so far, got to really try it out later this evening.  I put it up in the Maintenance shop on The Moorings http://www.return.mistymoorings.com/moorings/#b  We'll just keep your latest "update" there.  I made a note that this is "beta" and probably would change and that folks should rename their original aircraft.cfg and panel.cfg.

jeff3163

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2011, 09:08:53 PM »
Doug,
     Things are coming together nicely.  Did you want to post the Malibu's configs up there too?  I am about to start on the Scirocco GTX.
     Oh, did you install the update for the tug?  Should I install it?  It says it adds a landable helipad to the tug.  Wow, do I even need that?  What kind of update is that?  There is already a helipad on the tug I'm currently using, but I haven't even thought of how I'd use it.  I think I'd have to record a cruise, and then play it back while flying a heli.  It might be fun, but I have enough trouble just trying to land on a stationary pad.  And rooftops are enough challenge for me right now.
     Do you have FSRecorder?  I was wondering if those recordings are share-able.  So instead of posting a video, I'd just give you the recording I made.  You could play it back on your computer.  (as long as you have the same boat as the recording.  Watching it go would be the same as watching a video of it going.  FSRecorder is new to me, so I don't really know much about it yet.  It sure is fun though.
     Ok, I'm going to fire up FSX and get started on the Scirocco.

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Doug

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2011, 09:33:04 PM »
I didn't post the Malibu yet, but I put the tug up there.  Dex and I are "wondering" ... he has made AI traffic of the Daisy, the Riva and the Tug!  And they work. But now we are wondering what to do with them.  We may have to talk to the DeltaSim guy.  But he as made it all work.  So you could use that ... go find it and land on it!  We've got to figure out who goes to Jail, me or Dex??? :-)

I ran the Gemini 94 tonight on the new Bella Coola to Ocean Falls cruise (just posted it at The Moorings). If this doesn't convince people they need to get DOWN ON THE WATER, nothing will. I must have "snapped" 30 screen shots during the trip ... everywhere you looked it was absolutely spectacular.  I'll discuss the cruise in another thread.  But I ran it VFR using the Gemini ... beautiful trip.

D

jeff3163

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2011, 10:46:49 PM »
Doug,
     I just downloaded the Bella Coola to Ocean Falls route.  I am going to use that for working on the Scirocco.
     I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about with the AI boats. (oh, if it's ok to use them for AI, since they are payware?)  JJJackson said he is a retired lawyer.  Maybe he could help in this matter.  I don't know why the Deltasim guy would have an issue with it.  The boats were purchased originally, and the AI traffic can't be pirated, can they?
     I don't know.  I'd better just get back to my autopilot thing.  I hope that's OK with the Deltasim guy.  By the way, aren't we boosting boat sales for him?  He should be working with us.  I, personally, have purchased several of his boats so far.  And have plans to purchase more of them, as I can.

     edit - I just opened the Scirocco folder, and inside it is a text file, "copyrights.txt".  Maybe that can shed some light on the issue.  If I posted that file, as an attachment, would that infringe on his copyrights?  I'm starting to hate copyright laws.  Can we get his permission, then?

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« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 10:59:41 PM by jeff3163 »

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Doug

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2011, 07:28:27 AM »
Usually we find the copyright laws are only there to keep people from making money on work others have done. It's the "making money" part that should be "key."  I've got a copyright statement on our ABOUT page. But what I'm saying is that what we make here, we willingly share with others with ONE exception, they cannot SELL it to make money for themselves.  That has been the "standard" with this community.  That standard has, unfortunately, changed with some of the newer people coming into the game.  We buy a scenery package, but then cannot use the objects in a "freeware" package even though nobody could "see" the objects had they not bought the scenery ... but that makes no difference, policy is policy. It's a new game for the simming world ... I don't like it, but that's the direction it is going.

I don't know if we can "see" the AI Tug Dex has made if we haven't bought the scenery ... but if you don't have Tongass X, you can't see some of those objects.  So if that's the case, what's the problem? You've bought it, so you can see it. If you didn't buy it, it's not there. And people have bought Tongass X so they could "see" the objects. The guys making the money still get their money. I don't see how posting and object that you've already purchased would infringe on a copyright law ... but you see, I'm being logical, I'm not a lawyer! :-)

So I guess we have to be very careful with the new "standards".  Sort of like Kindergarten ... I'll share my toys with you, but you won't let me play with yours. To me, that's not the way it should be done, so we do it the old-fashioned way. And today we just passed 30,000 hits ... not bad for a little non-profit site, so I guess people appreciate our policy. But I really think sharing should be a two way street. Only Francois seems to understand that.

We can always ask for permission ... a couple of the OZx folks gave us permission for their objects (we have them thanked properly in the "friends" section), but others simply refused our query.  So it seems to be an individual thing.  We should ask each time we want to try something. Dex got permissions on the AI boats from Francois (Tongass X).  So its always good to ask.

I think Dex did the black tug, I'm putting it in today. So he'd have to do the red one with the heli pad. But it seems you could put that in as AI and then land the heli on it. 

What I'm really enjoying with this project is watching you people take a basic "format" and add some magic to it to come up with something entirely different.  FSX on the rivers sucks. But ORBX comes along with PFJ and adds the magic ... bingo, a whole new ball game.  Dex just "adapts" things ... sort of like its a normal thing for anybody to do ... but it's that same magic that makes something special happen for those of us who haven't a clue how he does it. Chris does it with the planes, Brad and Kim have done all kinds of amazing things for the scenery packages ... and look what you are doing on the boats.  Fun stuff.

It's a great team ...

D

Dexthom

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2011, 10:21:15 AM »
What AI??  I know nothing....   :-X

Doug

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2011, 10:29:56 AM »
Yep, you can tell Dex doesn't want to go to jail .. that just leaves "me" holding the bag! :-)  We're not "posting" anything, but it is amazing to watch what Dex "doesn't" do!

D

jeff3163

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2011, 08:56:42 PM »
Dex who?

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jeff3163

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2011, 02:21:37 AM »
I've been working on the Scirocco this evening.  Frustrating at first, then in desperation, I started copying sections of the tug's config to the Scirocco.  Some tweaks on that, and Viola!  I present to you the Scirocco GTX with autopilot.  And it's free.  I know now why it is free.  Jeez!  What a basket case to start with.  All better now, though.  Have fun.



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« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 02:32:08 AM by jeff3163 »

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Doug

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Re: Working on the boats.
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2011, 09:27:33 AM »
Jeff ... I put this config "up" so folks can get it. I also put the Scirocco in the "Marina" section so folks can get that one too.  Now there's no excuse for not trying a boat ... FREEWARE!!!