Alaska Power Project

[spud]

The most logical is to have maintenance/supply runs to the APP sites and rather than dispatches with their inordinate work load to set up, simple flight plans would do the job.  However it would help a lot if ALL locations were listed in the Goto Airport section of FSX.  Easier to make up your own Flight Plans from wherever you want to start that way.
 

[Doug]

Yeah, I'm going to dig out the ADEX instuctions and start working on them ... I agree, the "Go to" feature with the various starting positions are really a help. Also, Thomas has wisely labeled these as "PPxx" so there is no ICAO conflict.  I'll start working on it.

Doug

UPDATE: Egads!!! ADE is not intuitive (maybe my brain is wired backwards).  Anyway, I made an "Adex" for PP11 Cascade Creek Hydro ... it is "up". It seems to work.  I'm not sure you can "name" the helipads, and I haven't figured out a water start for the lake. (Started a thread on this under Help/Troubleshooting so not to go off topic here). But my first ADEX is "up" ... we'll see if it works for people.

[Trex3D]

Agree with Spud on the maintenance/runs..to be added among the plethora of scenarios RTMM already offers. For helos, sling loadable objects might be a good feature but might require another skillset among our talented developers here  Another suggestion might be a multiplayer feature to accommodate RTMM pilots (e.g. free multiplatform, multiplayer server such as DAFSIM, not necessarily VA ) who wish to interact with other members and make our hobby more immersive and fun through group bush flights, sharing of troubleshooting tips through Teamspeak, etc. for those who may be interested. Sometimes flying alone becomes boring after a while...Just ideas..   8

[Doug]

Good ideas, keep them coming, we will see what we can do but keep the "complication" relatively low! :-)

Swan Lake Hydro - By Thomas Menzel

Well, Thomas has done it again. There is a beautiful new hydro facility up on the web in the zip file. It is Swan Lake Hydro. It is "up" the channel from Lucky Lindy's Place (PF05).  It's ICAO is PP05.  There is a lot of detail in this one and this one is actually operating. (See the doc that comes with it).  Great addition from Thomas.

[Doug]

Everybody please keep in mind ... we are trying something different with the Alaska Power Project. We are letting you see how it is made, mistakes and all. For those of you who enjoy this sort of thing and have given us comments ... you'll notice we are correcting them as quickly as we can after you spot the problem(s). It is how "beta" works and it is how this community works best.  We are not a "for profit" site where everything (that you pay for!) will come to you neatly packaged and error free. We are just having fun, and frankly, barely making ends meet financially.  Not to say we are going to have a problem financially, but we want people NOT to expect $100 dollars' worth of quality from a FREE package. 

Please don't hesitate to say something if you see something ... that is what this particular thread is all about. You won't hurt our feelings ... our goal is to give you the best FREE product we can ... and you are helping with that process.

[Dieter]

Alaska Power Project (APP) vegetation not adapted to seasons?

Really no easy job to implement this excellent idea and for sure there are new great challenges for the designers Doug and Thomas.
The realization  is growing day by day with great success.  Thanks for that.

Nevertheless there are some "problems" to report.
Latley I flew these areas during winter time and to my surprise trees and bushes in the designed APP areas didn't change their color. They all are still in full green.
As long as you visit the areas during spring, summer and fall saisons it's all ok.
If you fly in winter time these areas look a bit like "oasis" because the vegetation didn't change. It's not only the conifers and bushes that still wear their summer dress also some deciduous trees and flowers are still blooming.
Additionally  occasionally some "strange plants" that do not grow in this area should not be used.

See 2 examples in attached screenshots

[tomse]

Dieter,
I already had some thoghts about the "seasons". You are absolutly right, we should not have green oasis in alaska wintertime. My suggestion is to finish up the major work with the locations and then have a look for detail fixing again.
Th

[Doug]

Agree. I've got one more to do (Triangle Lake) and now I'm making ADEX for the ones I've made. We can come back and work on this problem. I really do not want to mess with season switchers on these...they are too far-flung...not like changing a couple of trees around a cabin 4 different ways.

[ualani]

Keep in mind that all of  this stuff is free and made by dedicated people in their spare time just for the love of it. If it doesn't work in all seasons, then jst don't visit in those seasons. As for the non-native plants, only a botanist would probably notice upon micro inspection.

(Off of my soapbox.)

[Doug]

Thanks Steve ... Thomas and I can work on these anomalies. I'm thinking put in an evergreen that is not so green and the problem would be solved. Thomas can take out the "swamp scrub" and the "blooming trees" and I think we'll be ok.  One thing clear, I think we should be designing things for winter. I usually have my sim set on whatever season it is.  And, building these in summer/fall ... they show up wrong in winter. If we build them using winter "on" .. then I think the other 3 seasons will work fine.

For these projects, we are talking about some fairly extensive land areas, so I don't want to get into a season switcher and be switching out 100 trees 4 times ... nope (there are fish to catch!) :-)  And most of the forests in this area are coniferous anyway, so will not show a season change.  Dieter's comments are good ones, and something Thomas and I will work on.  This is why we tried "opening up" a beta like this for people to "see." I'm betting some have NO appreciation for what goes into making one of these.  It's easy to click on the zip file, open and install it ... the hard part is putting something INTO that zip file! :-)

[Doug]

UPDate on Vegetation at Cascade Creek Hydro

I took out all of the Spruce tree objects, which are "greener" and are better suited for summer. I replaced them with the Veg TC Norway Spruce "sets and singles". When these are placed within an ORBX "set" there is no difference.  There are some sets with snow on them, and ORBX uses both ... but in the SAME region  in the same season. Which is actually very realistic ... snow never falls precisely everywhere and with the mountainous terrain, there will be differences in barometric pressure and snowfall.  If you look at the screen shots below, you can see the "differences" built into the ORBX terrain.

Pic A ... this is the updated Cascade Creek with the Spruce trees gone and the new TC Norway Spruce sets replacing them. You can see how ORBX uses different trees (some with snow on them, some not) in various areas. I've pointed out what is "RTMM" and what is "ORBX."

Pic B ... this is with no RTMM (except  a little cabin lower right). You can see how ORBX terrain changes with areas, not all the trees are "snow covered" ... and the objects vary by "area."  The new Cascades Creek reflects this same terrain coloring.

Pic C ... a "single" and a "set" of Norway Spruce objects are set into the ORBX scenery. The arrows show the two entries, all the other trees around it are what comes with the ORBX terrain.

Conclusion: We can make it look better by not using the Spruce objects (too green), replacing it with the TC Norway Spruce object, singles and sets. The "islands" of green are typical of the area ... some trees have snow, some do not. RTMM's objects now better match ORBX.  (I'll do the same for the other APP scenery locations and update as I add the ADEX folders ... indicating changes on the Construction Log.

Doug

[Dieter]

@ualani

I never ever expected a statement like this from an RTMM Team Member!

Keep in mind that all of  this stuff is free and made by dedicated people in their spare time just for the love of it. If it doesn't work in all seasons, then just don't visit in those seasons. As for the non-native plants, only a botanist would probably notice upon micro inspection.

If this proposal wasn't so sad one could almost laugh about it.
I cannot accept this and  it makes a mockery out of RTMM scenery policy!

As a team member you  know about  RTMM's own given high standards and the meaning of quality control (QC).

Reminder please see here:
"Rules and Regs" for Authors Contributing to Return to Misty Moorings
http://return.mistymoorings.com/about/#c
especially no. 4

I also might remember:
In the past I introduced several Mike Broemme freeware sceneries to the RTMM Team for QC and you belonged to the QC team on more than one occasion.
Do you remember how these sceneries were "taken into pieces" checking for "problems" (this is weak expression for it) to guarantee RTMM's high requirements (so called "RTMM standard") to the software that is intended to be published to the users.

I assume you won't apply double standards.

[Doug]

Hi Dieter ... we are fixing it as we go and the process is working fine. Look at the progress we've made just this morning per your suggestion two hours ago. We will try to be the best we can be, Steve is pointing out that for a bunch of volunteers, with no pay for incentive, just love of the project, there will be some anomalies. On a project like APP, where we are not giving people the "final" product, but rather letting them watch the "process", there will be some screwy moments like this one. Not a problem!

This latest example is a good one for people watching.  You gave us a qualified opinion on something we might be able to do better ... within two hours of your post ... it is fixed ... as good as I can fix it, with pictures showing the differences, and the new file added up on the web. This is what it is all about ... this is how we get "close to perfect." Being a good German ... I bet you've been to a sausage factory ... not a pretty sight, but when finished and on the breakfast plate in front of you, there is nothing in the world like it. (I had a dumb bowl of cereal this morning!).  The process isn't so pretty, but the result can be!

With this project we hope we are "teaching" people about how these things are made and they don't just pop out of a zip file by themselves.  Hopefully, "airing" our errors (and look at mine where I built a dam on the wrong (damn) lake!).  But we smile, correct it and move on. People need to see the "work" and "errors" that goes into something like this. It is a huge effort ... hours of time involved.  There are two key parts, (1) your observations, and (2) our attempt at corrections.  It is a wonderful process, and it is working. thanks to folks like you. we made progress this morning ... progress to be proud of. Also learned some lessons, best to make these things with the winter season "on." Also watch the "kinds" of vegetation that would not work in all seasons.  Lessons learned, hours saved in the future. Progress!!

Doug

[jeff3163]

@ualani

I never ever expected a statement like this from an RTMM Team Member!
Quote
Keep in mind that all of  this stuff is free and made by dedicated people in their spare time just for the love of it. If it doesn't work in all seasons, then just don't visit in those seasons. As for the non-native plants, only a botanist would probably notice upon micro inspection.
If this proposal wasn't so sad one could almost laugh about it.
I cannot accept this and  it makes a mockery out of RTMM scenery policy!

Hi Dieter,
     Steve's personal opinions do not represent the opinions of the team as a whole.   

[Dieter]

@Doug,
your reaction on my input problem report - starting to change the problem zones with a skilled ability - is more than admirable, thanks for your engagement.
But take your time, this isn't necessary to do it at once.