Author Topic: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)  (Read 372107 times)

spud

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2014, 06:36:06 PM »
Rod,
thank you for clearly outlining the problem with older objects/mdls needing conversion.  Hopefully now I'm on the correct page with the issue.  I had read that conversion was not straight forward with objects that contained annimations etc. but was about half an hour behind of the actual problems which you have made known.
Now I can slink back to my rock to think about world problems!   :o
 8)
Later,

Spud

jsapair

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2014, 09:23:00 PM »
OK, now that I'm totally confused I agree with Steve and Agood. I am not a computer programmer nor do I wish to be. I'm just the average guy who switched over to DX10, added Steve's fixer and ACX. P3D may be in my future. I would definitely like to see a tutorial from Somebody, Someplace on the best way to go...i.e, converting .bmp to .dds, which program to use, etc. It might seem simple for you guys but not to the average Joe, believe me. Ualani, I know you've posted on this umpteen times but browsing through the past forum posts to find past info is maddening at best. I know you guys will figure it out, you always do, but yeah, start a new Forum category or whatever it takes for someone like myself to go to and say, Oh, Yeah, now I get it, like Steve did on his DX10 fixer. And if I wanted to go to P3D, the info would be there to do that. A lot to ask, I know, but a thought.
Jsapair

ualani

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2014, 11:19:34 AM »
Jsapair,
What specific DX10 questions do you have? Do you have questions about converting textures to display properly in DX10? Forget P3D textures for the time being and we'll deal with DX10 for now. Ask away! We can start from scratch here. It really isn't anywhere as daunting as you might think it is; in fact, if you can (and obviously have) install RTMM sceneries and the required libraries, the season switcher, control panels, flight plans, etc. then you are perfectly computer literate enough to convert a few textures with a straight forward utility.

Steve
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jsapair

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2014, 06:41:34 PM »
Hey Steve. I guess my first question is why convert the  bitmaps in the first place...is it because that's what DX10 likes to work with? Secondly, if you convert all those files to dds can you revert back to DX9 using the dds files? (not that I foresee doing that.) My DX10 seems to work fine using the bmp files...am I going to see quality upgrade enough to convert? With all of the scenery folders that I, and most of us have that sounds like a daunting task, but, not in your esteemed opinion obviously. I'm way beyond the Legacy collection, been at this a few years now. And then there's the AddOnX tool issue. Some say you need it, some say you don't, but we all have our biases one way or the other it seems.
   AddonX: Using this tool, when I had a problem with a particular scenery, shorelines, discolored water, etc, I just went in and unchecked that scenery in the utility. But I don't know what that utility is actually doing. Is it actually converting bmp to dds and by unchecking it you are reversing the conversion? This is where the confusion comes in on my part. I read Agoods post. Is that convxml the way to go if you're going to convert and if so, do you dump the AddonX first? Revert it back to normal or something?
                        Thnx.
Jsapair

ualani

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2014, 10:36:31 PM »
Hey Jsapair,
Good questions that I will attempt to answer for you.

"And then there's the AddOnX tool issue. Some say you need it, some say you don't, but we all have our biases one way or the other it seems."

Not a bias issue with me; it's a plain fact!

Let's start here. From post #2 by one of the most knowledgeable people in the DX10 tech support world, which will put the Addon Converterx issue to bed once and for all:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/433879-thinking-of-doing-a-second-attempt-switching-from-dx9-dx10/

"Regarding AddonConverterX - it's not needed anymore, as the Fixer does all that it did, plus correcting the somewhat crippled DX10 functionality and adding features to correct deficient and erroneous objects(i.e devs who use old tech and tools when creating FSX objects), while also making obsolescent objects work again!"

"I guess my first question is why convert the  bitmaps in the first place."

Converting .bmp textures to .dds makes occasional incompatible textures compatible with DX10. I don't understand - or care - why some textures show in DX9 and not in DX10. All I know is that incompatible ones can be easily converted to display in DX10.

"Secondly, if you convert all those files to dds can you revert back to DX9 using the dds files? (not that I foresee doing that.)"

Yes.

"My DX10 seems to work fine using the bmp files...am I going to see quality upgrade enough to convert?"

It isn't a matter of quality, unless you consider whether or not being able to see all scenery objects a matter of quality. It has nothing to do with smoothness, frame rates, etc. Strictly being to see and enjoy scenery as it was designed by their author.

"With all of the scenery folders that I, and most of us have that sounds like a daunting task, but, not in your esteemed opinion obviously."

You don't have to go through all of your scenery folders per se. You do need to go through all of your required RTMM library's texture folders. The required libraries are, as you know, are listed in the scenery section. It can most likely be taken care of in under an hour's time, give or take.

"I'm way beyond the Legacy collection, been at this a few years now."

The only reason I mentioned that particular set of legacy files is because a "Woody's Pier Sections" object found in "Mesa Lake" doesn't display in DX10 unless converted. I brought it up because it is easy to see before and after conversion results. Same thing with the snowdrift in the RTMM scenery tester scenery. Fire up the scenery tester and see if the snowdrift shows up in DX10. If it doesn't, then conversion will take care of it. Trust me!!

(Addon Converter X) "Is it actually converting bmp to dds and by unchecking it you are reversing the conversion? This is where the confusion comes in on my part. "

ACX alters some texture characteristics - I don't know what or how - and then stores them in a cache file on your hard drive. When you execute FSX it has to load them for use each and every time; that's why your FSX load times are much longer.

"Is that convxml the way to go if you're going to convert and if so, do you dump the AddonX first? Revert it back to normal or something?"

I disabled ACX and then ran everything through Convimx. It can be easily disabled without deleting it. Do it like this:

Navigate to C:\Users\YOUR NAME\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX
Locate a file called "dll.xml"
Open it in notepad
Find a section that looks like this:
<Launch.Addon>
    <Name>AddonConverterX</Name>
    <Disabled>false</Disabled>
    <ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>
    <Path>J:\Addon Converter X\AddonConverterX.dll</Path>

Change:
<Disabled>false</Disabled> 

To:
<Disabled>true</Disabled>

Save the file.

That's all you need to do. If for some reason you want to use it again, just change that line back to how it was.

ACX is also a tool that can be used for other purposes. Read an overview here:

http://www.avsim.com/pages/0409/Flightsimtools/ACX.htm

FWIW, here's the author's description of ACX. (Note the word "most" and "many" is used several times.)

"Addon Converter X is a plugin for FSX that makes many add-on aircraft and sceneries developed for FS2004 compatible with FSX SP2 and FSX Acceleration Pack.

Many existing aircraft and sceneries suffer display problems with these FSX versions, such as missing textures or missing scenery objects in the DirectX 10 mode. Addon Converter X resolves many of these problems on the fly, thus allowing you to enjoy thousands of sceneries and aircraft developed for previous Flight Simulator versions with FSX."

I hope this answers your questions. Feel free to ask more.

Steve
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spirit_66

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2014, 11:12:01 PM »
@all
I didn't see mentioned this tool but maybe I didn't look quite well.
It's called ModelConverterX and can be found here. http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/modelconverterx.87/ One has to install the SDK of FSX too. If somebody wants to convert to P3D v2 then the P3D SDK is needed.
Spirit
Regards from Chiang Mai (VTCC) / Thailand

Doug

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2014, 09:44:11 AM »
In reply to Steve's comments and to many emails I've gotten asking why we are not recommending the conversion tools.  If you want to experience FSX as it should have been done, then do EVERYTHING Steve (Ulani) is saying ... he is laying it out clearly for you.  Here at RTMM, I am using the "DX10 Scenery Fixer" (http://stevesfsxanalysis.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/dx10-scenery-fixer/) and this fixes 90% of the problems. But I'm not using the converter for a reason SPECIFIC to RTMM.  If you are wanting to see what DX10 looks like, this is the place to start ... Steve gave me that starting point and it works.

Here is why we don't use the converter: If we used the converter, then everything would look OK (because it works!!!) ... we wouldn't know which objects were not DX10 Compatible and which are.  So for me, and our development team, we are staying away from converting bmp files, etc to files that 'work' without a converter.  I am going through each of our locations with DX10 (DX10 Fixer Tool Installed) and searching for "bad' objects. When I find them, I replace them, put up the "new" folder with the fixed/replaced objects...put the "DX10 Ready" logo on it and move to the next one.  When we get it done, if you only run the DX10 Scenery Fixer tool, you'll have a seamless experience with RTMM. So for flying "our" locations, that's all you will need .. and I do highly recommend it.

The process we are using at RTMM is for our personal development of the site.  We don't want to have to download (more) special libraries, etc. But most of you don't ONLY fly RTMM.  By replacing bad objects with ones that work, I'm giving you a DX10 compatible RTMM. But if you follow what Steve is telling you, then your DX10 will work for the WORLD!!! If I were not doing development work here, I would be following his instructions to the letter. He is DEAD ON CORRECT ... follow and trust what he is saying.  Keep in mind our policies here at RTMM are for different reasons.

For instance, another reason we are not doing the conversions, I am totally convinced that P3D is what is just over the horizon for all of us. (It is AMAZING) Not quite user friendly yet.  We are making sure here that when the "migration" is made to P3D that it will be seamless and that we are basically running virgin FSX compatible objects.  So when the migration happens, we won't be giving you a lot of "fix it" issues.

For those of you who are asking, we are NOT telling you to NOT use Steve's advice. I am saying that if you are not doing development work for RTMM, ABSOLUTELY you should be following his advice.  The Scenery Fixer Tool (url above) will solve MOST of the old DX10 problems.  It is a 5 minute "fix" ... worth the effort, and you can spend all the time you want "tweaking it" ... I don't tweak it, I run it as it is set from the installation) This way I can say, run the DX10 Scenery Fixer tool and DX10 will work seamlessly with RTMM). But I'm still working on making each location DX10 Ready. (Again, let me know when you find a bad object, I'll go after those on a priority basis for you).

DX10 is amazing. Terrific frame rates, water you could SWIM in!!! beautiful lighting, etc. Don't miss the experience. Listen carefully to what Steve is saying...follow his instructions and you'll have a whole new FSX in your computer!

Doug
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 10:19:58 AM by Doug »

stiletto2

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2014, 02:00:03 PM »
@all
I didn't see mentioned this tool but maybe I didn't look quite well.
It's called ModelConverterX and can be found here. http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/modelconverterx.87/ One has to install the SDK of FSX too. If somebody wants to convert to P3D v2 then the P3D SDK is needed.
Spirit

Model Converter X (MCX) is an advanced tool for scenery and object developers  that I would not recommend for anyone who doesn't understand how the internals of the object library .bgls work and is not familiar with using the tools from the FSX SDKs such as bglscan.exe.   MCX does not apply to the DX10 texture conversions.

As far as P3Dv2 goes, which uses DX11,  MCX conversion is necessary to display certain/most FS9  developed objects, since the FS9 SDK model structure format is not quite compatible with DX11 .  However, some of those conversions will not be straight forward when special effects/animation is involved.  Once, the ORBX regions work in P3Dv2, we will probably see some talented FSX developer  convert the RWY12 and EZ libraries for P3Dv2 usage.  If that does not happen, I am sure that RTMM will take a closer look at making our library of sceneries compatible with DX11 (P3Dv2).

Rod

ualani

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2014, 02:31:48 PM »
Thanks Doug, I think you've pretty much summed up the points of view from several perspectives. I'm still considering the remote possibilities of uploading all of my converted libraries somewhere that can be downloaded by those who want them. If anyone knows of a place and an easy way to do this without cost, let me know. I know there are places out there that store stuff in the cloud, but I'm not sure which ones are the best.
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Doug

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2014, 03:33:36 PM »
Avsim or Flightsim.com?  I would do it in a minute, but if you saw my incoming email for Misty, you'd know why I hesitate to "host" it here. Those same people would be sure it was an RTMM library, no matter what we said, and later when they got in trouble, they'd be back to me asking how to fix it.  So that's why I'm hesitating for hosting it here.  But we will discuss it with the RTMM team and see what the others think ... this is an "our" site thing .. not "my" site! :-) 

ualani

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2014, 05:16:24 PM »
Actually, I was thinking more in line with POSSIBLY opening a Hotmail or Gmail account and either making the downloads available in a public file area or making them private and requiring anyone who wants to download them request a password from me. The password would be changed on a regular basis. This would only be available to registered RTMM members. Just a thought.

I agree, Misty shouldn't host the files for the reasons that you mention and I wasn't suggesting, expecting or hoping for that!
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Doug

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2014, 12:55:39 PM »
(For the three people who have asked by email, this is the post I promised ...)

The DX10 Scenery Fixer costs about $32 US. It can be found here:

http://www.flightsimstore.com/product_info.php?currency=USD&products_id=2630&osCsid=pbs3mir5bd614vhp3eim0p3m01

Point it at FSX and run it. Then Check the DX10 Preview in the Graphics area of FSX.

That is "all" there is to it and you'll have DX10 working smoothly in about 10 minutes.

You can read about how it works here:

http://stevesfsxanalysis.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/dx10-scenery-fixer/

And about the latest version of it (1.4) here:

http://stevesfsxanalysis.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/version-1-4/

ualani

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2014, 01:45:10 PM »
Let me add one or two things to Doug's post above.

Make ABSOLUTELY SURE that you take the time read the DX10 How To Doc" found here:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/387343-the-how-to-doc/

At the very least to do it right and get everything out of your system, you HAVE TO start off with a new, clean FSX.cfg and ONLY add the sections as described in the How To Doc. 99.9% of the tweaks people have added to their FSX.cfg are not needed in DX10 and are  applicable to DX9 only - and most of the DX9 tweaks are PURE CRAP. I can't stress this enough.

It is also VITALLY essential that if you have an Nvidia graphics card that you download the Nvidia Inspector utility. It is an extremely easy utility to set up and use and, again, is essential for obtaining a smooth and lean DX10 experience. There are tons of hints and tips on how to use NI; just Google it.

http://www.guru3d.com/files_details/nvidia_inspector_download.html

DX10 shifts a greater amount of the processing load from the CPU to the GPU vs DX9 which puts most of the load on the CPU. This is why, when properly setup, OOM crashes - so prevalent and maddening in DX9 - disappear. Again, refer to the "How To Doc."

Failure to do the above WILL result in less than optimal DX10 performance; DX10 will work, but in a crippled state. Believe me!

If you have any questions about any of this, post back here. I'm no techie expert, but I've been messing with DX10 for over a year and have watched it evolve, have messed with it extensively, and still discovering it's intricacy's!

One more thing: DX10 is all about achieving a smooth and fluid FSX. FPS is NOT necessarily indicative of smooth and fluid. I've read complaints from people who have 60 FPS and yet have severe stutters. There's also individuals who run at 22 FPS - or lower - and FSX runs like butter on their properly tuned system.
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jsapair

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2014, 10:41:15 PM »
Many thanks to Steve, Doug, Stiletto (one l, two t's) Agood and others. Steve, you answered my questions in a clear and concise manner, which I appreciate pal. Great stuff. Do you have a link to the Convimix site? I know it's probably there in a past post but I don't see it just browsing.
 Doug, just as a suggestion, even though Misty's doesn't officially support DX10 file conversion per say, couldn't Steve's post be wrapped up in a zip, with some editing maybe, and be posted at Misty's Home in the DX10 section, along with the Convimix link? Might save someone some searching even if it's 'unofficial'. With a disclaimer, perhaps?
    Steve. I've got no problem running 30 FPS with my Nvidia 670 in any situation but I have noticed anamolies in certain sceneries...which is why I went to ADX, I think I will take the plunge and convert as you suggest. I'll post my results here, because, as Doug says, your ideas pertain to the world, not just Misty's. Won't be anytime soon, though. My 13 y.o 4H member granddaughter has baby sheep coming so the whole world is on hold for now. Haha.
Jsapair

ualani

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Re: DX10 Object Conversion Discussion - (Formerly "CIRP!!!!! WOW!)
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2014, 01:13:29 AM »
Comvimx link is discussed in my post (post #7) on page 1 of this thread.

What kind of anomalies are you experiencing? Have you used the suggested Nvidia Inspector settings per the "How To Guide"?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 08:28:39 AM by ualani »
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