Misty Moorings Forums
Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D/MSFS2020) => Misty's Place => Topic started by: archangel1 on November 24, 2011, 02:44:35 PM
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Guten Tag, Klaus!
Since you seem to be our resident Hubschrauber expert, I figured you might be able to point me in the right direction. (By the way, just noticed Flysimware has released their Bell 47H/Sioux H-13. Looks good plus FlightSim Pilot Shop has it on sale for 50% off this weekend!)
I know FSX has cut a few corners in regards to realism in helicopter flying and Hovercontrol has taken great steps in trying to overcome any limitations. What 'aftermarket' whirlybird would you recommend to 'get one's feet wet'? You know my favourite is the Bo-105 but, judging by its over-achieving performance in real life (Red Bull, anybody?), I don't think it'd be a good trainer. Freeware or pay doesn't particularly matter and cost really isn't a factor. No Robinson, though. I don't find it particularly aesthetically pleasing and if I'm going to eventually learn to fly one, it could at least look good!
Prost!
Mike
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Hi Mike!
Great news you like starting with the whirlybirds!
As you already mentioned, the big problem in FSX is some strange limitations on helicopter flight characteristics. So most payware and freeware helicopters for FSX don`t offer any of these heli-FD`s like Torque Induced Yaw. Their Flight behaviour isn`t correct at all and are all easier to fly than most helicopters in FS9 were.
I recommend using HTR Helicpter total realsim - This tool adds heli-FD`s to some payware and freeware helis. It really adds more challenging and fun. Check Hovercontrol.com for informations on it.
You can change control response for your own needs with it. If you think the heli is acting too hard on your control inputs, just lower the settings in HTR and the Heli is easier to fly.Though only 100% responsivness is the real challenge!!! ;D You can get very good results even on the FS default Bell206 JetRanger with HTR!!!
Good news, there are some heli`s avaible which offer Helicopter Flightdynamics`s.
Payware (I personally fly payware helis more often than freeware one`s.):
Most realistic and authentic FSX chopper is for sure
The Dodosim FSX Bell206.
It offers lot`s of heli-FlightDynamics which makes it flying a real challenge. Starting the systems can be some tricky.
But it also offers different difficult levels, so can start on low level and when getting used to it you can try flying it on higher level (max. level is 5).
IT´s not cheap but full worth the money. This is the king of FSX choppers!!!!!
Other payware I know (and have purchased) with Torque Induced Yaw :
SA315 Lama from fsheli.ch - It´s really nice flying with it.
The real world Lama was loved by pilots for many,many years for their high mountain cababilities.
Cerasim Bell222 - it also offers a nice Flightmodel.
Other Payware Heli`s I have (All these one`s are best flown with HTR):
Cerasim 212 and Cerasim 412
Generally I like the Cerasim Heli`s 212, 412 very much, because they also offer a great system depth and smooth flightmodels. Even without HTR they are really nice to fly and earned lots of reputation in the heli-simmers hearts. You can add HTR Helicopter Realism MOd to them - ans so they offer a great Flightmodel.
Nemeth Designs BO105 - easy to fly
Nemeth Designs MD500 - no realistic startup procedures, so very easy to start and flying.
Both helis are really nice and challenging flying only with HTR active. Especially the original Nemeth MD500`s Flight Model is no good.
Since a few weeks there are new aircraft.cfg and airfiles for the MD500 adding some better Flight Behaviour. Download from hovercontrol.com.
The BO105 and the MD500D are my favourite heli`s in the real world. The BO105 for it`s flight capabilities, thought it isn`t really a nice helicopter! I´ve hard some people saying it looks like a brick! ;D
But the most I love is the MD500D. I love Design of this flying egg! 8)
Nemeth Designs EC120
Nemeth Designs EC135 - all Nemeths in general offer very good 3D-Models. Flight Models are less complex.
Justflight schweizer CB300i
Justflight Robinson R44 - And yes, I also don`t like the Robinsons Design! :D
The Schweizer and R44 are included in HTR. Their 3D-models look very good and they got quite good votings from he community.
BTW: I purchased the R44 just today on simmarket.com. You can get it there till 28.11.2011 on 50% sale (for me in Germany 6,63 Euros). So haven`t flown it so far.
Freeware:
Default Bell206 - with HTR a very cheap, good and challenging flying!
This is the moment I have to say that I have with the Jetranger and same problems as with the Robinsons.
I never didn`t really like it`s design.
Hovercontrol Bell412 by Jordan Moore. The FREEWARE HELI ITSELF I`d like to say. Great model and smooth Flightmodel.
Itis also included in HTR and Jordan Moore released recently a new patch adding Torque Induced Yaw to the Flight Modell.
Nemeth Aerospatiale AS350 - Conversion from FS9 to FSX avaible on hovercontrol.com
fspainter AS350 - also a conversion from fs9 tp FSX of the A-Star, new on simviation.com
Both are included in HTR!
Dirk Stuck`s BO105 - Easy to fly. The 3D-Model is very hungry on FPS. Also the Cockpit layout is based
on the german military BO105`s and converted in some different civil versions by him. Avaible on hovercontrol.com
Summit:
If you don`t like to spend much money. first try out the default 206 Jetranger and the Hovercontrol Bell412.Especially the 412 is easier flying. after some Time try adding HTR and learn some new challenges.
If you like spending money, buy:
1. the Dodosim206 - and gett a full package with the offer of different difficulty levels on flying and systems
2. the Cerasim 212, 412 and/or 222 - great ones with even better quality by adding HTR.
3. the Lama from fsheli.ch - old but good lady
4. one of the other one`s I mentioned
Oops!! lots of words! :D I hope it helps!
BTW: Yes, i noticed release of the Bell47. But didn`t buy it so far. The 47 is a classic and oldtimer, so I think it`s very interesting getting it into my virtual hangar.
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Vielen Dank, Klaus!
Looks like plenty of choice!
The Dodosim 206 was already on my wishlist as was the Lama from FS Heli.ch (which I hadn't heard about until recently).
I've already downloaded and stored most of the Hovercontrol stuff, plus several repaints, in anticipation of future use. Does your current Bo-105 profile work okay with HTR 1.5?
I was going to say it'd be difficult to play with the Cerasim birds since they closed down but I see SimMarket is still selling them. Guess I should grab one while they're still available. Any preferences between the 212 or 412?
I like the MD500 as a helicopter but it's the one case where I don't think Chris' RTMM colour scheme repaint works well. Obviously I don't have to use it but I just don't like the stripes. I think it would have been better with solid blocks of green and white which, by the way, is one of my favourite colour combos, especially with a deep green like Hunter or British Racing. (Looks amazing painted on a big Mack conventional truck cab!) Doesn't seem to bother you, though. ;)
Not big on the Squirrel or most of the larger jobs. I do find the Skycrane kinda neat as well as the Sea King. I really like the Chinook and the Seasprite. The Apache? Well, that's just horny!
Something to think about, now. Thanks again, Klaus.
Prost!
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Klaus or anybody else into whirlybirds,
What is the "Take On" helicopter game that Aerosoft promotes all about? I know it's a separate game platform and isn't for FSX, but it looks pretty good? I noticed this awhile back but haven't really heard much about since then.
Brad
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Mike!
The BO105 profile should work with HTR 1.5. The actual profile is new in some important things! The handling of the Heli should be some more sensitive when HTR responsive settings are at 100%. So don`t pull to hard on the sticks! ;) Also the BO does loops and rolls !
BTW: I read an intersting article in a german helicopter magazine interviewing one of the two european Redbull BO105 Aerobatics Pilots. Very Cool! The Redbull BO`s are in general normal serialtype machines. Only difference is limited takeoff-weight for aerobatics and critical parts of the AC have to be changed much earlier. For example the Main Rotor Blades after 60 flighthours.
Regarding the bigger helis!
Yes, I also have the Nemeth Designs S64 Skycrane. The real one is an incredible piece of machine!!
An other bigger freeware heli is the Superpuma from Dirk Fassbinder. you did alread find it on hovercontrol.com, I`m sure. This is a very nice one. Dirk Fassbender did also create a very good heli autopilot. I think, it`s the only one working for FSX.
Also the freeware Enstrom 280 by eaglerotorcraftsimulations is a nice one. They also recently relased a new frewware fsx Bell206 with nice rotor-animation.
A payware heli I completly forgot mentioning is the Aerosoft Huey! I should offer also some better Flightdynamics. What I herad of it so far it is, ranking is something behind the DoDo206 but a very good heli. I didn`t buy it so far, because I didn`t give up all hopes getting a Huey from Dodosim someday! I announced it years ago but didn`t release ! :'(
The Cerasim are really worth every Cent. I love them both. Some say the 212 is a bit better than the 412. But I`d recommend them both. These are Hueys. These are Workhorses. A MUST HAVE!
I do not own the Virtavia or former Alphasim Apache. I heard not really good things about this company so didn`t buy any product from them so far. 3D-Models are looking good but system depth is limited.
If you are interested in Military helis you could have look on area51sim.com. They released a OH58D, AH1Z, UH1Y already and a AH64D is in development. Same here as Virtavia 3-D Models are O.K. but system depth is limited.
The only military machine I have is the Aerosoft Seahawk. 3D-Model looks very good. has a modern glass-cockpit. It´s easy to fly.
The longer I`sitting here in front my computer....I realize that I forgot a lot in my first answer?! ;D
No worries with the MD500 RTMM paintscheme!! I personally like it very much and think the stripes fit very good on the 500. ;) You have an other opinion, and thats absolutly O.K! :)
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Klaus or anybody else into whirlybirds,
What is the "Take On" helicopter game that Aerosoft promotes all about? I know it's a separate game platform and isn't for FSX, but it looks pretty good? I noticed this awhile back but haven't really heard much about since then.
Brad
Hi Brad!
Take on helicopters is some kind of "simulation". It´s a standalone game developed by the team Bohemia Interactive which programmed the military simulations ARMA and ARMAII. TOH is a new game wehre you start a virtual career as a helicopterpilot. The developers promised a simulation than a computergame. After release it became evident that the helicopters flightdynamics in the game are not good. system depth is very low.
But the developers said they will work on it and some guys form hovercontrol.com are helping to improve the Flightdynamics now. So hopefully after this rework it will be more challenging nd worth called simulation not only a action game. Guys from hoverontrol invlved in this process makes me optimistic that this could be achieved.
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I just got Take On. I've only flown about an hour in it, mostly just messing around with the controls assignments and sensitivities. So far it is more game than simulation. It's not a replacement to FSX. So far I like it. It took a while to get the "feel" of it. It has some interesting missions and the graphics of the Seattle area look fantastic. However the navigation and GPS screens are a little lacking. I'll report more when I can play it enough to give it a fair review.
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Hallo Klaus,
thanks for your really informative review of the helicopter scene as far as you know it.
Very much appreciated it and put me in a direction so far not noticed: to the SA315 Lama from fsheli.ch!
Very nice heli and enthusiastic reviews- perhaps (for shure - I mean ;)) I will buy it.
At the moment I fly the Dodosim (really the king!!!) and the Aerosoft Bell Huey (aka "Teppichklopfer" - nice sound BTW) I think really worth the money! And I believe, we will wait until the "St. Nimmerleinstag" for the Dodosim Huey :'(
I too have the Cerasim 212 - but I´m a bit dissapointed cause of the flight-behavior- although I´m not a RW pilot at all - but in comparison with the both others, especially the Dodo....!
Would be nice if the The Alouette III project for FSX and FS2004 by fsheli.ch will be finished soon! Fantastic heli too!
Thanks again - an further infos and experiences would be much appreciated :)
Best wishes from Bavaria to Bavaria
Rainer
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Hi Rainer,
I fly the Cerasim 212 and 412 with HTR and like it very much. You get the system depth from Cera and the Flight Dynamics from HTR like Torque induced Yaw, Retreating Blade Stall, Vibration effects, Transverse Flow effect, Ground effect, VNE`s acording to the helicopter`s vne-tables and some other. Even Vortex Ring State, but not as good as in the Dodo.
The only helis I fly without HTR is the Dodo206 and the Lama.
The Aerosoft Huey represents mainly the german military cockpit layout. So I don`t know if our US and Canadian friends do really like that. On HOvercontrol some were disappointed about that.
Servus ;)
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There Klaus goes again, gettin' me all wanting to spend cash on more heli stuff... :o
.. must.. resist...
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Great Info Klaus.
I have most of the helos on the list. I did not know about the HTR. I downloaded it and will have to start some testing. "Crashing" :o
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Hi All,
Christmas time is near.... so it`s time for presents and special offers!
I just noticed that Nemeth offers now a 50% sale for their products.
Every day there will be another product offered . So it could be worth having a looking on their website daily discovering some nice products.
Today they started with the SA-2 Samson -paahh some toystuff from the Avatar movie >:( :'(
But maybe when there will be some helis like the AW109, MD902 or AS332 avaible, it`s time to make a deal!
So if anybody`s here intersting in buying some Nemeth Heli look at:
http://www.nemethdesigns.com/ (http://www.nemethdesigns.com/)
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Danke, Klaus. Maybe I'll get lucky with the Bo105!
Cheers,
Mike
(Oh, and I grabbed the Cerasim 412 before it disappears. It's parked in the hangar with all the other FSX stuff I've been collecting for my eventual new system. It's tucked in somewhere behind the DC-2, the Connie, the Cub, the Bush Hawk, the Harrier or the X-15, amongst others!)
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Danke, Klaus. Maybe I'll get lucky with the Bo105!
Cheers,
Mike
O.K., Mike.....Today`s your Day!!!
Today`s (17.12.) Nemeth sale 50% is the BO105!!!!!!!!
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Got it!
Any thoughts on Nemeth's Huey, Klaus, as compared to, say, Aerosoft's, or should I wait for DodoSim's?
Mike
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Good news on the Bo105!
I do not have the Aerosoft Huey or the Nemeth Huey yet.... But it ie said that the Aerosoft Huey offers much better Flightdynamics. But also it represents the Huey is it is in service in the German Army (especially the Cockpit Layout is from the German Army`s Huey). So May be not all US or Canadian GUys do like it!....As said the Flightdynamics should be very good ( Too Bad, Aerosoft offered it on Friday on 25% sale.... :'( I missed it, too!).
The Nemeth Huey has FSX standard Flight dynamics. But there`s a HTR profile avaible. So that could be a choice.
Dodo Huey:
The whole FSX helisimmers community is waiting for years now for this product!! Nobody knows when it will be released or if it will be ever released?! :'(
BTW: just downloaded the Nemeth MD902 Explorer
New Edit: just noticed that download failed. Nemeth servers seems very busy. Now they shut down completly! :-[
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Apparently Nemeth is doing a bit of maintenance today.
If their Huey shows up in their 50% off sale later this week (which is almost a given), I'll probably grab it. Keeping an eye out for the Skycrane and maybe even the MD 500, too. ;)
The smaller Eurocopters?
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Just noticed, that simmarket.com offers all Nemeth Helis on sale.
I downloaded the AW109 for a fair price!!!
So My Nemeth collection now includes:
MD500D Defender
MD902 Explorer
Sikorsky S64 Skycrane
MBB Bo105
Eurocopter EC 120
Eurocopter EC 135
Agusta AW109
EC120 and EC135 have nice 3D-Models. Flight Dynamics are stock FSX without helispecific Flightdynamics.
Regarding the EC135 there will soon be released a very promising freeware version for FSX from ICARO-Group. The download should be offered on hovercontrol.com
Look here:
http://www.hovercontrol.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=72b80543d25b81be8d3d2fe0799a895e;act=ST;f=1;t=18510;st=480 (http://www.hovercontrol.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=72b80543d25b81be8d3d2fe0799a895e;act=ST;f=1;t=18510;st=480)
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Well, Klaus, you just cost me around 47 Euros! ;) ;D
simMarket's prices worked out slightly less than half price for me because I don't pay the VAT. Lost about a dollar and change by buying the Bo-105 direct but I saved even more with this order so it all works out. I grabbed 4 helis today but there's still 6 days left in the sale! ::)
Bell UH-1 Huey (3 patches!)
MD 500 Defender
MD902 Explorer
Sikorsky CH54-A Skycrane
Now, if I only had a system able to run them! Of course, if I'd put all that money I've spent on add-ons towards a new computer in the first place...
Prost!
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Wow, your your fleet is growing rapidly..... ;)
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Seven payware helis (plus a couple freeware). Five Nemeth, one Cera Simware 412 and one Flysimware Bell 47. (You should see the aircraft hangar! Talk about eclectic ::) )
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Hallo Klaus,
in between I fly the Cerasim 212 with HTR and I like it very much, the heli has now a fine behavior. (A little bit a pain is the sound from the turbine, a kind of technical singing; I´ve no better word for it).
Thanks for the HTR tipp as well the hint for the Lama heli. I bought it and it´s a realy nice helicopter BUT
1.) I´m - whatever I´ve tried - not able to start it. I must start with another heli, than switch over to the Lama. I´ve read the manual dozends of times carefully, I read the FAQ on the website (www.fsheli.ch), I googled for special forums (but I didn´t find any or any further information) AND
2.) I´m not able to use the winch (I´ve FSX Acceleration installed!). When I choose with "Shift + 3" the Event-Panel I´m able to activate in the first row one or two buttons but when I click on any other icon/pictogram the Event-Panel is vanishing/closing ::)
Mabe you can help me and point me in the right direction or where I can find further information (forum or sth. like that)
Any tip/hint would be much appreciated
Servus Rainer
A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU AND ALL OTHERS!!
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Not familiar with the subject helo but as for the sound on the 212 you could always alias the sound from another helo that you like better if it is too annoying.
8)
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Hi Rainer!
Yes, the 212 sound is not the best! But, the Helo is worth the money!
Regarding the Lama it`s some time I flew it, but it worked for me I´m sure!
I will have a look on it next weekend.
Sorry, I´m away from home this week and have no acces to my
regular notebook.
The following is from fsheli.ch FAQ-Site:
"Please read the manual carefully and do all step-by-step. 1. The wite Lever MUST be completely at zero (ctrl+F1). 2. The Fuel-Booster-Pump MUST be ON. 3. The red cap must be open, then click on the upward area on the starter (you will se a "+" on the cursor), wait some seconds - the green light is on - then click on the lower part of the switch (you will se a "+" on the cursor). If the green light is off again, you have waited too long."
Did you try the winch with the Lama mission`s?
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Thanks Klaus for your answer, no worries about the delay.
Thanks for the citation from the fsheli.ch site; I´m already read it and tried it exactly to the point, but no joy ::).
I have had a couple of days in the back the same idea as you: May be I´ve to use/try the winch within a Lama mission?? Didn´t try it till yet, will do so during the next days/the weekend.
Thank you for your offer to look into that "issue" next weekend or so; no hurry!!!
Thanks Spud for your proposal to change the sound, I will give it a try!
Servus Rainer
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Hi Rainer,
just tested the Lama! It worked for me!
Starting the engine is a bit tricky, but it really works!
I tried the cold and dark flight from Raron-Base (Swizerland). You will find it in your saved Flights in FSX.
Do the start as it`s described in the Manual. I think the most tricky part is the starter button under the save guard.
1. start as manual suggests..
2. Pressing the starter button
click with the mouse ob the save guard and it´s opened. You see the starter button
When you put the mouse trigger on the upper side of the starter button, the mouse button changes to a hand-symbol with a + on it.
Then click on it...you see a green light illuminating and you will hear a sound signal.
Next move the mouse button to the lower side of the starter button, the mouse button shows now a hand-symbol with a - on it.
When you see this...click again with the mouse, and the engine starts now!
Next pull the Throttle lever ( left beside the collective lever) to about 30%, then after a few seconds to 50%)
3. Continue as Manual says.....
Et Voila ...it should work. :)
I did a short flight with this old Lady.....Wow, she`s so beautiful!!!!! I love the Lama! For me, one of the best FSX-Heli`s.
Don`t forget, you need the right pedal to counter torque induced yaw, it`s a french built heli ;)
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Hello Klaus,
thanks for your describtion in detail, I will try again to the point and report back how/if it works!
Servus Rainer
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Cerasim is back!!!!!!!
Cera announced on their web-site that they are back in business.
Their next project will be the UH60L Blackhawk....for sure, it will take some time till we se some screenies..
Great News for all rotorheads...... ;D
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Hi Klaus,
just pick up this thread because of HTR. I would like to know what profile you're using with the ND EC-135. I think the only available profile for the H&S EC-135 doesn't fit well.
Thanks a lot and viele Gruesse nach Muenchen.
Rudi
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Hi Rudi,
I have the ND EC-135. But, it`s quite some time I flew this helo in FSX.
So, I also didn`t try running the HTR Profile for the H&S EC135 with the ND EC-135.
Would like to help you, but can`t with this helo. I was never very satisfied with the ND EC-135.
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Hi Klaus,
thanks for the quick response. Well, that's no problem for me. I was just curious if you used it with HTR and which profile.
Are you using the Cera Bell 222B with HTR? There're are 2 profiles available.
Have a nice weekend.
Gruesse
Rudi
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Hi Rudi,
I use the Cera Bell222 with the updated config files from hovecontrol.
Jordan Moore did some cjanges with the flight Dynamics and provided them for the community as download.
Link:
http://www.hovercontrol.com/cgi-bin/ifolio/imageFolio.cgi?direct=FSX_Helicopter_Configs&img=9 (http://www.hovercontrol.com/cgi-bin/ifolio/imageFolio.cgi?direct=FSX_Helicopter_Configs&img=9)
Actually, I only fly the Cera 412 and 212 with HTR profiles. These profiles were first introduced by Fred Naar, the author of HTR.
Beste Gruesse, Klaus
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Hi Klaus,
thanks for the link to get the improved Bell 222B aircraft files. I'll give it a try.
I'm doing my own Bell 222B HTR profile now. It's quite interesting and fun to work with this. I guess that I can make a better one as it is available at hovercontrol. The actual results are very promising.
Maybe I'm in the mood to make also a profile for the EC-135. The most work is to get the original specifications and a good blueprint of the helicopter.
Gruesse aus Chiang Mai
Rudi