Misty Moorings Forums

Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D) => Addon Scenery and Enhancements => Topic started by: Bradallen43 on October 31, 2011, 09:28:55 PM

Title: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Bradallen43 on October 31, 2011, 09:28:55 PM
 Posted today in the Orbx forum.

------------

By shousa Today, 08:01 PM

For me it is all at once or nothing. Here I go.

Questions
- that RWY12 is a FS2004 Scenery not FSX ?
- all the Summit dispatch links give a 404 error ? (edit: can get them further down the page as well)
- will your PAKT have issues with ORBX's new release ?

Points to note:
- the relevant OZX libraries will be available even though it seems you are choosing to download the lastest version only. After choosing the first download each one is available separately (at first I could not find it as was looking at the bottom of the page where the relevant libraries seem to be)
- 39 zip files and some PDFs..whew!
- I have not downloaded the 20 or 30 JPEGs yet.
- I have organised all the ZIPs into directories (to install in that order) as following so as to install them in an order which will require no scenery database management.
1) EZ and OZ libraries - 3 files
2) CIRP - I will amalgamate all scenery items into 1 directory each for effects and scenery etc. So there will be a SINGLE scenery entry for CIRP - 23 zip files. OH NO - there are MULTIPLE ZIPS WITHIN THE ZIPS AND MANY HAVE TO GO TO OTHER PLACES eg EFFECTS !!!
3) CEYX and RTMM libraries - 2
4) Vehicles and hovercrafts -4 files
5) dispatches - 9 zip files

This is quite literally going to take forever. I will go have a cup of tea.

OK Have just learned something.

I chose all the 23 CIRP files and using 7Zip choseto extract to "*/*" and each ZIP extracted to its own directory in one go.

I have 2 other windows open - one as a scenery directory dump the other as an effects dump and I am dragging them across. Drag across the "scenery" folders to my CIRP Scenery folder dump which has inside of it a "scenery" folder and then choose yes to amalgamate them.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Doug on October 31, 2011, 10:36:37 PM
The Summit dispatches 404's are fixed, sorry about that. They were OK down in the Land Operations area.

Doug

And if I were to post over there I'd say

... don't forget, we are a FREEware site, made up of all volunteers on a great team that spent over 1000 hours putting this together for the pleasure of the flight sim community ... with NO STRINGS ATTACHED. The great thing about a site like ours, if it is too much bother to download all the "zips, PDFs and JPGs ... whew" you can always go elsewhere ... it's not like you paid for it.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: spud on November 01, 2011, 12:30:19 AM
I did post over there folks but I suspect that the post will be deleted by the powers that be.  Here was my reply.  Wonder what will be there tomorrow?

shousa,
your concern about the RWY12 being a FS2004 file, as is the EZ_1 as well, need not be of concern. IF you bothered to read the instructions it would tell you that although the libraries were originally for FS2004 like any other library of .bgl/.bmp files they work fine with FSX. The only caveat included in the instructions were that you have to direct the .exe installer to a temporary directory and move the scenery and texture files manually as the installers are made by the original authors to install into FS2004 and as they were not developed by the team then we could not in good faith change their work.
The reason the different Ice Stations are not clumped into one folder for CIRP is primarily so that if you happen to get a bad download or install something incorrectly, trouble shooting will be simplified using this method. Once you have installed the files if everything is running error free then it would make sense if you want a single entry to combine all the various files in the scenery sub-folders into a master CIRP entry. By mass installing so many files together given the possibility of a corrupt download etc. your trouble shooting task is magnified greatly.
The most tedious part of installation is of course the scenery object libraries so that all the various objects will be in the scenery. That will take the most time. The Ice Stations themselves have many supplemental files, ie: jpg, PDF, flight plans etc. that mostly embellish what each download contains and are not part of the installation itself. If you already have a flight plan saved from an earlier Ice Station download you will be notified that file xx already exists if you try to save the same flight plan a second time, do you want to replace it? That prevents more than one instance of the plan. In most cases the scenery will consist of a scenery sub-folder with a few files in it. the Main folder with the scenery sub-folder is placed in the FSX\Addon Scenery folder and added to the scenery library. A process that including unzipping should be able to be done in less than 5 min. each. Not including the inordinate long start up time of FSX itself but that you have to take up with Microsoft. As you point out there are embedded .zip files in some downloads (a total of 3 files with embedded .zip files).
All in all if you are too impatient to install CIRP one station at a time and check everything for proper operation then perhaps it would be more appropriate to spend your money for the simplicity of payware software with installers. The idea behind RTMM and CIRP has always been the adventure of getting from 'here to there'. The group took the path they did to let the experience happen in a straight forward serial direction from one station to the next. I realize the price you pay is to exercise just a modicum of effort and time spent enjoying the experience but those who need to have it all 'right now' will unfortunately perhaps disagree with this philosophy.

View Postshousa, on 31 October 2011 - 10:07 PM, said:
My view - if I had not done it all at once it would have taken double or triple the time.


Exactly the point of the whole thing, you let it grow and enjoy the experience.

PC Aviator PNW Inv.#236905A, PFJ 96313, NRM FSS0109981, AUSP4 FSS0110565, CRM FSS115824
Later, Spud (KPNS)
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: archangel1 on November 01, 2011, 12:58:27 AM
Why do so many people think flight simming is a race? So you install everything all at once.  At maybe 100+ mph, how long do you think its going to take you to fly to every destination, scattered over hundreds, if not thousands, of square miles? If you just want to fly fast, hop in a military jet or run a few laps at Reno.  Bush flying obviously isn't for you.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Reggy on November 01, 2011, 04:54:23 AM

You will never please all of the people all of the time and that is their loss! I would hate to think how long I have spent downloading and installing all of my scenery and aircraft much of it payware(some of it excellent, some of it not so much). My point would be (I don't speak for anyone but myself but am sure others would admit to the same) of the thousands of destinations on my system that I could chose from for any given flight if I am honest I have probably only know of maybe 1 -2% of whats available to me.
Instant gratification can be a wonderful thing, but tends by it's nature to be short lived, "Life is a journey, not a destination so enjoy the ride" seems like a good way to go in this blisteringly quick world in which we reside for such a short time.

Cheers Reggy      ::) phf (somebody should really hide that soapbox) ;)
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Bradallen43 on November 01, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
Well,

I'm of the opinion that people will agree to disagree. And Shousa has his points. We know that there are people that will not like taking the time to install everything in due course. That's our world today. Everything is right there at your fingertips. So, some people aren't going to want to take the slow route. That's fine. To each his own.

He's merely pointing out that it's time consuming. And we already knew that. But that's his choice. He's not bashing us or putting CIRP down and he's interested. So we should be patient with people and make sure that they get the support they need to enjoy our efforts.

I like hearing different views on things because they open up other thoughts for me that I didn't think of. It helps me see the broader picture. Again, if there comes a way to make an easier, simpler installation procedure that doesn't take a lot of support, I think we'd all agree that would be less troublesome. I'd go for that.

But if the re-installation of files into a smaller, easier package comes at a larger support load, we don't have the time to spend troubleshooting those problems. That's why we keep things separate so we can help with minimal fuss and bother. People that choose to use our files will just have to accept our philosophy or not. For now.

If I can be shown an example of a complete CIRP installation package that is troublefree and one step, then I'll open my mind to that.

Brad
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: mhlarsen on November 02, 2011, 01:51:21 PM
Thanks for the fantastic add-on CIRP!

Until now I have spent my time looking around and I must say that you have created a perfect atmosphere with these ice stations. Scenery and effects like blowing snow goes hand in hand so well.

I have had near crashes several times when losing focus caused by constantly viewing the sceneries.

In addition to this Orbx will soon release PAKT which is in the 'neighborhood', so I will be spending a lot if not all my flying time here.

Thanks
Michael
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Mike63 on November 02, 2011, 03:25:52 PM
Thanks for the fantastic add-on CIRP!

Until now I have spent my time looking around and I must say that you have created a perfect atmosphere with these ice stations. Scenery and effects like blowing snow goes hand in hand so well.

I have had near crashes several times when losing focus caused by constantly viewing the sceneries.

In addition to this Orbx will soon release PAKT which is in the 'neighborhood', so I will be spending a lot if not all my flying time here.

I agree with you all the way Michael. How did you get the blowing snow to work?

Rgds
Mike

Thanks
Michael
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: mhlarsen on November 03, 2011, 04:42:39 AM

I agree with you all the way Michael. How did you get the blowing snow to work?

Rgds
Mike

Mike,

I have taken a different approach to installing all these files and I have not yet seen any problems.
I did not want many FSX library entries, so now I have only two: RTMM library and CIRP.
First I split the CIRP files into library files, scenery files and effects files.
All Effects files are just dumped into the FSX Effects folder, but also remember to transfer any related texture files into the folder Effects/texture.
I the create a library folder named 'RTMM library' with subfolders scenery and texture. All required library files are placed in this folder in their respective subfolders. Typically its a bgl-file with an accompanying txt-file (GUID-numbers).
Then I create a scenery folder named 'CIRP' with subfolders scenery and texture. All scenery files are placed here in their respective subfolders.
I then copy the folders 'RTMM Library' and 'CIRP' to the FSX folder Addon scenery, start FSX and add them to the FSX library with 'RTMM Library' on top of 'CIRP'.

Michael
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: LV-PDD on November 10, 2011, 08:51:16 PM
CIRP scenery is  exelent work, but i have a problem with my fps are very low, i didn´t have that problem with others RTMM scenery like the cabins and stuff like that
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: frostlp on November 10, 2011, 09:57:35 PM
CIRP scenery is  exelent work, but i have a problem with my fps are very low, i didn´t have that problem with others RTMM scenery like the cabins and stuff like that
Have you done a system defrag since the install of C.I.R.P.?  It helped me.

Also, Mike63 - do you have the Accelerator Pack installed?

Lou
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: archangel1 on November 10, 2011, 11:48:30 PM
Wasn't there a post from one of the admins mentioning the fact that CIRP could be a framerate hog? I think part of the solution was to disable the areas you weren't flying in at the time in the Scenery Library and only keep your current base and destination active.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: arodsat on November 11, 2011, 03:34:55 AM
Wasn't there a post from one of the admins mentioning the fact that CIRP could be a framerate hog? I think part of the solution was to disable the areas you weren't flying in at the time in the Scenery Library and only keep your current base and destination active.
Yes. It's in the "Known Issues" section of the CIRP page. I've got a decent system and can play any new game with Above Average to Max settings except certain FSX addons, CIRP in particular. Not complaining, it's well worth it. I am curious though as to WHY there is such a frame rate drop while the other RTMM areas don't have this drop. I tried disabling the blowing snow and that helped a little but, not enough of a rise in FPS to keep it turned off. I'm thinking it may be the flaming barrels but I have absolutely no evidence to back that up.  :)  It just seems that whenever I am not facing them my FPS goes up a little. Could be just coincidence. IF/when someone figures out what's causing it and/or provides a real fix, disabling individual scenery areas while they are not in use works well. It's a little clunky but it's hard to complain when such a quality product is free.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Dan on November 11, 2011, 08:31:00 AM
I my limited testing, I had a feeling it was the smoking barrels as well.  I had talked to Doug bout this same thing when I was visiting last month, and we had talked about creating a one-off test scenery  (one of the ones that causes frame rate issues) with no flaming barrels.   I'd like to see that happen.

I'm running a hex-core i7 980X 3.33GHz  processor, 6gig of RAM, and a 1GB GDDR5 ATI Radeon HD 5870, on W7 64, all of which destroy all other games on the market with 60+ FPS and beyond (new releases).     However, I get between 10-15 fps over many of the sceneries.    I couldn't even fraps over some of them when making my trailer video, it went to a slideshow.

Granted FSX isn't the most optimized piece of sim software to grace the market, for sure, so I know some of it comes from that.

It'd be an interesting test though... Just remove the smoking barrels from a scenery and see what happens!   Is there a particular one that comes to mind that's a little more framerate-hogging?

I'll pester Doug (my dad) to remove them from one of the sceneries and upload it as a separate "test" file somewhere.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Doug on November 11, 2011, 08:35:41 AM
Dan ... I'll do it later this afternoon and post here.  If that doesn't "do" it, then we need to pick some other object and just keep eliminating things ... keeping a record of what we are doing. I'm also wondering about the "smoke" we use ... these are actually tiny cabins we have miniaturized and put into a chimney to create the effect.  We'll do the barrels first, then try the smoking chimneys.  I'll do this testing at Summit Ice Station (since I built that one) ... just to make sure, were the frame rates down on that one?

D  <- "D" can also stand for "Dad" :-)
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Dan on November 11, 2011, 08:56:11 AM
:) cool.   I'll have to verify if that's one of the ones I had issues with.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: spud on November 11, 2011, 12:08:52 PM
Disclaimer:  I am just stating my personal opinion with this post because I am not knowledgeable enough about exactly how scenery objects effect FPS. 
Because there are many different objects, scenery wise, at each Ice Station and the Ice Stations are in a very confined area the sim is being forced to load most of the scenery objects into memory even for those objects that may not be used at a particular Ice Station.  This causes the CPU to be somewhat overworked and FPS are affected adversely.  You can observe the result when you disable all CIRP scenery but, for example, PF40 and PF41 in the FSX senery  library.  Fly between just those two bases and the FPS will be higher.
Additionally I'm not sure if having to load an object more than once is done or not.  For instance the smoking barrels at the end of the runways at each station.  Are they only loaded one time into memory or if many bases are turned on do they load multiple times into memory and use up CPU cycles?  I do not know the answer for that one.
PF48 and PF49 are across the valley from the remaining 8 bases PF40-47 but still probably in the same set of tiles as the other bases.  If there are any experts out there who have a definitive answer please feel free to post with your knowledge.
If you disable various parts of CIRP the frame rates do improve so I think the causes could be related to what I have surmised in this post.
Making a Station with the smudge barrels removed will probably show some improvement as would disabling any other object that is used multiple times in a Station scenery.  Hopefully there would be that 'magic bullet' that was the culprit but I think it will be mostly just scenery object overload from the close proximity of the Ice Stations.
As we all are aware FSX was never finished by Microsoft and ACES was fired before it could be completed so it will remain a problem until such time the code can be upgraded to fix the problems which of course means never!


 8)
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Doug on November 11, 2011, 03:20:09 PM
Frame Project

OK, I've started a little "Frame Project" for those interested. Go to the FAQ under F:
http://www.return.mistymoorings.com/faq/#f (http://www.return.mistymoorings.com/faq/#f)  You will find some instructions and a zip file there. Only "play" with this if you are experienced ... the file names for the 4 test files are all named identically, so don't get mixed up. One of them is the "original" so you can always put that back in. The instructions are at the link.

If you could check these out and post the frame rates you are seeing here, we'll see if we can get to the bottom of this. A couple of things ... 1. It isn't the "barrel" that's probably causing the problem, but the "smoke" placed in the barrel (so we think the barrel is innocent!) ... but I took out the barrels with the smoke (both) just to avoid confusion. Second, this is only hypothesis about the smoke ... we don't know that's the cause. So if we see no frame rate drops (significant), then we move on and look at another element. Spud could easily be correct also ... we are LOOKING for the answers. If you have an idea, and can give us some data, we'll post it so others can work with it also.

Doug
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: frostlp on November 11, 2011, 11:13:14 PM
Now that you mentioned the smoke - something not related - change the simulation rate and check out the smoke - it affects the amount of smoke, too 'specially in the 1/4 to 1/2 range.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: jeff3163 on November 11, 2011, 11:34:02 PM
I spent some time on this issue this morning.  I copied the contents of the zip to a folder, containing four sub folders.  The names of the folders are a little confusing.  One is called "no smoking barrels, and two are called "no smoke barrels or chimneys" and "no smoke barrels or chimneys (2)".

I went to Summit and set up for testing.  All sliders maxxed, except detail radius set to small, autogen off, clear weather and traffic off.  I used "Bob" for the vehicle.  After doing all this, it occurs to me that the numbers are relative.  Each person will have different setups, machines, etc.  I even have different results at different times.   I started by unloading the station completely and recording the FPS.  I left the "Bob" vehicle sitting where it loads at, and faced the Headquarters building.  I stayed in that position for each test. 

The results were: 
Unloaded - 9.0
No barrels/chimneys - 10.5
No smoking barrels - 8.6
No smoking chimneys - 10.8
Original configuration - 9.5

These numbers are inconclusive however, as turning my view to the left or right in any of the tests would raise the fps, regardless of whether or not smoke was in view.  The view looking up the glacier produces 20 or more fps.  When facing the HQ, the frame rates are lowest (even when Summit is not loaded) I walked forward and placed myself behind the HQ building.  Now with the Summit station behind me (fps still 9.0), I turn around to face the station and uphill glacier.  The frames are now near 20 with the station in view and all effects active.  What I'm trying to say is . . . I'm not sure the ice stations are even to blame.  I got higher frame rates with the station loaded than not, and low frames in one direction only, even with the station unloaded. 

Low frame rates are a part of FSX that I have come to accept as standard over the years.  It's the driving force behind system upgrades.  I don't consider it something to complain about.  I stopped checking my fps rates a while ago.  The system lags are more likely as a result of missing objects or textures that the computer is dealing with, not ones that are working. (like the smoke, barrels, etc.) 

All we can do is make sure we have all the object libraries, textures, and effects that are needed, and defrag regularly.  Make sure you have plenty of free space on your HD for pagefile operation.  And minimize background services. 
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Dieter on November 12, 2011, 04:16:31 AM
The test file is a great idea, but...
Prerequisite for a meaningful test is a standardized test situation.
(which should be specified)

My system:
Win 7 home 64 bit
FSX+Acc
i7 CPU 965@3.20 Ghz
Ram 6 GB
Graphic card NVIDIA GTX 295
Screen solution 1920x1200

Position
N56° 10.11'
W130° 3.92'
alt 2923
course 69

Date Nov 12, 2011
Time in FSX : 12:00

Looking through the VC of the standard MS C-172
No weather (clear blue sky)

Results:
Original cirp_summit_ice_station - 14
No Smoke barrels or chimneys - 16
No Smoke barrels or chimneys (2) - 23
No smoking barrels - 21

BTW:
The windsocks have a major impact on the frame rates, too.

Dieter
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Doug on November 12, 2011, 08:58:53 AM
I won't change the names, but they basically are the elimination of the smoke. First the barrels, then the chimneys, then both plus the original. 

I see the smoke "adding" (and one would expect that) but I don't see it crippling the frame rates.  I think there may be more involved than the smoke.   

Dan reports it goes to "slide show" mode when he approaches ... I don't see that at all and his machine can run circles (blindfolded) around my machine ... so maybe it is something buried in the setup. We have the same "settings" but maybe one of those "hidden" settings with cache, or something?

But what you folks have said here is good information.  Is there anything else you'd like me to try? I can pull the wind sock at Summit easily and we could look at that. I think the comment below of turning in the same place and looking up the glacier with the rates going to 20 was interesting ... what ever causes that seems the best "indicator" we've got.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Dan on November 12, 2011, 03:49:30 PM
One thing that may be different with my setup, I'm running on a Solid State Drive, not a regular HDD.   Pagefiles work a little differently with SSDs.   I wonder if that's my main difference.    Either way, FSX really puts out some crappy framerates, given it was released so long ago and hardware has come a long ways since. :)     I think we're just at the mercy of the unoptimized FSX for the most part.

edit:  For instance, here are some screenshots I just took from Skyrim, just released yesterday (which reminds me of CIRP/RTMM, somewhat, the area :) ).   I can get 60-90 fps with this kind of detail, but only 15ish in FSX..   Just seems very strange.



[attachment deleted by admin (size over 300k)]

[attachment deleted by admin (old)]
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: jeff3163 on November 12, 2011, 04:05:05 PM
I have been flying around the CIRP area this morning, and checking out some thoughts I had.  I told you I turned around, and the framerates are different depending on which direction I am facing.  Ok, I used that info and flew in the direction of the low framerates, until they rose.  Then take a look around to what is in the area.  I was eventually led to Bowser lake, where something was cutting my rates in half.  I disabled Elliot firebase scenery, and fixed the frame drop.  I continued on in circles and was led back to Stewart.  The icefields do cause a 50% drop in fps for me, but was compounded by  the Elliot scenery.  I unloaded ALL of the CIRP related entries, snow effects, NDBs etc.  I still show markers on my GPS for all the stations.  Also, the runway "snow tracks" for PF40, and probably all others is still showing.  So I have some BGLs that have gotten away from me.  I need to track those down and disable them.  I thought the runway tracks were in the scenery folders of the stations they go to.  Disabling CIRP and Elliot firebase brought my frames up to 80-100, and more consistent during the circling maneuver.  So the method of turning on only the stations you are departing from and heading to, is going to help the low end spec. machines quite a bit.

In conclusion, Elliot Firetower scenery needs looking into.  Could someone else confirm this also.

My C: drive is also an SSD.  It should make performance much better.  SSDs are much faster than regular HDs.  Yes, FSX is a bag of buttholes.  And, I think I enjoy the fight. ;D

The picture is PF40's runway tracks still showing, but all of CIRP is disabled.

[attachment deleted by admin (old)]
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Dan on November 12, 2011, 04:08:39 PM
My C: drive is also an SSD.  It should make performance much better.  SSDs are much faster than regular HDs.  Yes, FSX is a bag of buttholes.  And, I think I enjoy the fight. ;D
Yeah that's why I replaced my old HDD with a SSD, and it does improve performance in every other instance, which is what makes this even more odd.   FSX is literally the only game that I have framerate issues in, highly frustrating. :)
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Siegfried Schulz on November 12, 2011, 04:13:09 PM
Hello Friends !!

First many thanks for your outstanding work !!!

I've found a very small differenz between the 'Reality' and the 'Printet' text :-))
The Position for the 'Cambria East Ice Station':
   ICAO PF42 - NDB Frequency: 242.00 KHz - Rwy 14/32
   Lat: N55 52.02 - Lon: 129 30.00 - Mag: 315 - Alt: 5100 ft (Ice)

It's just a little mistake - typical for 'Copy and Past'

Best wishes
Siegfried

Corrected Lat/Lon datas 
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: jeff3163 on November 12, 2011, 06:00:51 PM
Quote
The picture is PF40's runway tracks still showing, but all of CIRP is disabled.

Photo_CL16_McCleod.BGL has been discovered in the PF30 Victory Valley/scenery folder.  Must have been included in the Victory Valley package accidentally.  (or I stuck it in there for early Beta testing, and forgot it)  Not sure.  It was the only one like that, and is fixed now. 

I'm trying to "turn off" all aspects of CIRP,  but I still have markers on my GPS screen for the ice stations showing.  I can't direct the GPS to a station though (all stations are unloaded).  What file puts the markers on the GPS screen?  (little red circle with PF## tag next to it). 

edit - Rebooting FSX eliminated the GPS markers.  They must've been held in memory.

[attachment deleted by admin (old)]
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: jeff3163 on November 12, 2011, 06:30:28 PM
The impact of weather on framerates.

[attachment deleted by admin (old)]
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: corbu1 on November 13, 2011, 08:06:47 AM
I have been flying around the CIRP area this morning, and checking out some thoughts I had.  I told you I turned around, and the framerates are different depending on which direction I am facing.  Ok, I used that info and flew in the direction of the low framerates, until they rose.  Then take a look around to what is in the area.  I was eventually led to Bowser lake, where something was cutting my rates in half.  I disabled Elliot firebase scenery, and fixed the frame drop.  I continued on in circles and was led back to Stewart.  The icefields do cause a 50% drop in fps for me, but was compounded by  the Elliot scenery.  I unloaded ALL of the CIRP related entries, snow effects, NDBs etc.  I still show markers on my GPS for all the stations.  Also, the runway "snow tracks" for PF40, and probably all others is still showing.  So I have some BGLs that have gotten away from me.  I need to track those down and disable them.  I thought the runway tracks were in the scenery folders of the stations they go to.  Disabling CIRP and Elliot firebase brought my frames up to 80-100, and more consistent during the circling maneuver.  So the method of turning on only the stations you are departing from and heading to, is going to help the low end spec. machines quite a bit.

In conclusion, Elliot Firetower scenery needs looking into.  Could someone else confirm this also.


Jeff,

I did a Flight from Stewart OpsBase to Elliot Fire Base this MOrning with all CIRP Stations activated.
I can not really confirm your observations.

I had a big drop in FPS when flying north from OPsBase (11-15 FPS) till Mt. JOhnson and Mt. Ericson stations.
After passing that aera on heading to Elliot Fire Base I got 19-23FPS.on final approach to Elliot`s helipad I got a short heavy FPS drop ( for 2-3 seconds) to 7-9 FPS. I was on a heading south, looking in driections of CIRP stations, on this final approach.
On flying back to Stewart OpsBase I had nearly constant fps-drops to 9-13 fps till final approach on OpsBase Helipad.
I did touchdown on the helipad with a 270 heading. On this direction I got 20-23 FPS.

I did the Flight with:
Cerasim Bell212 Heli
HTR Helicopter total realsim v1.5
TrackIR5
Ezdok Camera
Real weather settings created by ASE Active Sky Evolution
REX OVerdrive

My laptop is:
i7 820M
4 GB, 2 HDD à 300GB, Raid 0
Win7 64 Ultimate

FPS measured with:
Fraps
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: jeff3163 on November 13, 2011, 10:46:48 AM
Thanks Klaus.  I will take a second look at Elliot firebase.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Doug on November 14, 2011, 07:23:18 AM
Here is an interesting comment Peter Treleaven sent me ...

===================================
Look I have not joined the forums yet but I do have a bit of your scenery including the ice fields. I can’t help noticing the severe FPS impact in the FAQ’s as I was suffering the same with a i7 2600k oc’ed to 4.9ghz.
I may have stumbled on the cure, well for me I have. I found the issue was a FSX setting that some with high end system may have set.  If I may suggest the idea of making sure folks have the “Ground Scenery Shadows” flag unticked in the Scenery tab of the FSX settings, and then watch their FPS go back to where it should be. Hope this helps a few.
===================================

Worth checking out ... if anybody sees a dif, let us know.

D
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: spud on November 14, 2011, 10:09:39 AM
I have always had mine unchecked so it is not a 'universal' solution.  Like any tweak to FSX or the FSX.cfg file if it works for you that is a plus but in general your better off just setting the recommended settings from the installed scenery (ORBX) and use them.
It is still my opinion that it is just the sheer number of scenery objects packed into the Ice Station sceneries that are the cause of the FPS 'hit' experienced by users.  My experience has been that other than on the ground at an Ice Station my FPS, while limited are still smooth which is all I care to experience.  If your sim flys smoothly at 10 FPS then why try to chase the FPS counter?  Turn the silly SOB off and enjoy the flight.  My goal is to have a smooth, no stuttering flight experience and as long as I can achieve this then FPS be damned!
 8)
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: LV-PDD on November 14, 2011, 10:15:36 AM
ok, i tried the frame proyect is a little better, but the best solution for me was only activate one or two scenery at the time.
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: WeDGe on November 14, 2011, 09:54:31 PM
hey folks , i,ve been awol for a while , but always checking in and following along .. with cirep done its time to bit the bullet and reinstall rtmm lib,s on my new machine , cant wait to try some multiplayer CIREP flights...now i kinda figured that the frame issue would pop up with something as detailed as this .... we had a similar problem with custom scenerys we did for the round the world flights , one thing that helped alot was we took all the library objects and converted any 32 bit textures to dxt3 and that made a big diference in fs9 .... are these textures 32 bit ?convert to dxt5 for fsx would be good ..its time consumming to  do but well worth it. just an FYI , cant wait to get back , cheers WeDGe 8)
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Bradallen43 on November 14, 2011, 09:58:29 PM
WeDGe. Where you been man? It's been awhile. Wish I could help with the conversion process of objects but I can't. Can you do it for us? The entire EZ1 set of any offending 32 bit files would be awesome.

Thanks. Let us know when you get that done okay??

:-) Brad
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: WeDGe on November 15, 2011, 01:20:35 AM
hi brad, been on vacation and then just lots of OT at work and personal stuff getting in the way and getting used to win7...I might be able to help with the texture conversion...i,ll have to email the people that worked on it , and actually find out how .i think there is a program that does the conversion for you , it take time to find them all ...maybe if we,re luckey the whole ez1 lib might have already been converted by the Round The World guys already ..wouldent that be sweet 8)...I,ll get back to ya , have to make some phone calls and emails , will update later in the week
                                                                                                                                     WeDGe
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: PropDriver on November 16, 2011, 01:27:12 AM
I do have the EZ libs all converted to DXT5 dds, but I do not know about making them readily available as they are someone else's work.
If someone can come up with an OK I can upload archive.

Pete
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Dieter on November 16, 2011, 03:10:06 AM
This reads great. Maybe no problem as the EZ-library is freware?  :-\

But I wonder how the corresponding bgl file (which is programmed to read the former bmp files) recognizes the new converted dds file?
Are the bgl files changed, too?
Does it work for you? Are frame rates improved by using these converted dds files?

Dieter
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: WeDGe on November 16, 2011, 01:08:13 PM
I,ve been doing some research , fsdeveloper site has alot of info on the subject ... i,m looking at this program and others to convert . i havent read anything about the BGL file needing to be modified , i think it already can read multipul texture formats if thats what it does, I was surprised to learn that the default fsx textures are DXT5, havent heard back from any of my scenery guru friends but might get some info on this thursday nights multiplayer with midav..I,m looking at this program to convert
http://www.flightsimtools.com/texture_doctor/
and this addon converter looks interesting.
http://www.flightsimtools.com/adconvx/
I,ve also been researching on fsdeveloper site  and have found that missing textures are a big hit on performance and they should be removed.
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=Missing_textures
 heres the link to fsdeveloper main scenery info page.
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Scenery_Design

My head hurts from reading and trying to understand all this stuff, but if we put our minds togeather we,ll make it work better i,m sure. time for WORk later ....WeDGe 8)
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: Dieter on November 16, 2011, 04:34:40 PM
 >>  havent read anything about the BGL file needing to be modified , i think it already can read multipul texture formats <<

That would be great, but I don't think so.
I'm not a specialist in this stuff, but how can a bgl-file that is progammed to find and read /texture/xyz.bmp will be able to find and read /texture/xyz.dds?
Isn't  it the same as the /texture/xyz.bmp file has been deleted?

Dieter
Title: Re: CIRP Feedback
Post by: jeff3163 on November 17, 2011, 12:36:14 AM
I read the thread about missing textures, Deiter.  It does search for various formats as well as searching through the CAB files.  It's the searching that kills the clock cycles (fps), as it searches each path in the texture.cfg file every time the texture is called by FSX.  That's what I was saying earlier in the thread.  It's the missing textures that are slowing the process down. 

There needs to be an online object and texture library that we can retrieve missing items from.  It should be updated regularly, and freely available.  Anyone creating a texture or object could add it to the collective. 

That's some good sleuthing there, WeDGe!  Thanks.  I bookmarked that Texture Doctor page.  If I weren't such a penny-pincher, I'd cough up the $10 for it.  I plan to get it, but not today.