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Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D/MSFS2020) => Prepar3D-Version 5 => Topic started by: kaha on November 21, 2020, 01:33:27 PM
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Unfortunately I get CTDs. I did not have a single CTD with V5.1, now with V5.1HF1 CTDs occur at least once every flight, maybe once per hour in average. It also depends on what I'm doing. For example if I switch from fullscreen to windowed mode more often, there are more CTDs.
It's always the same log entry, it's a warning only with event ID 1001 and it mentions Prepar3d.
I did many tests with different aircraft, different scenery, rebuilt .cfg, but there definitely is no rule. With a complex plane in ORBX TE it doesn't happen more often than with a default plane in China.
I can play MSFS (and do context switches from fullscreen to window), Assassins Creed Valhalla and other games for hours and everything works well. I made stress test with my PC, but nothing happens.
I removed overclocking from the 2080TI and from the CPU, but CTDs persist. Only in P3D. Something must be wrong with the installation.
I now have to find out what's the cause for it. I will uninstall it and install it again, starting with the Client. If necessary I will uninstall everything and start with a clean V5.1HF1 installation.
I flew 2 legs with HF1. One was ok, the other suffered from 2 CTDs.
Here are 2 screenshots. One of the log entry and one in game shot with MSI afterburner and GPU-Z visible to show GPU temperature at 99% load. The in game shot is 4K, so you can zoom in.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aembg7ju4uwfpbx/P3D_V5.1HF1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7d8runc70spjb5s/P3D_V5.1HF1_1001.jpg?dl=0
Karl
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Reinstalled the client, no joy. Probably will install from scratch.
Karl
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Oh boy, sorry to hear Karl.. will definitely wait for a bit before playing with 5.1x.
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Norm, I think I might just be unlucky. 5.1HF1 is behaving nicely. Mostly. And a clean install every now and then could be an advantage overall.
Thank you,
Karl
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Have you activated the debug checkboxes for scenery/content errors? :-\
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Good idea, Jeff. I switched it on and had more than 400 errors in the log file.
Most of them of type duplicate section names or key names or key values outside sections in aircraft.cfg or duplicate key names in effects files.
Then there was one error in an add-ons.xml of freeware CYYT.
I managed to eliminate most of it (alone 300 are from FlyTampas Las Vegas scenery), so only some are left, nothing special, that always was in.
I will do a clean installation now.
Thank you,
Karl
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It took me 1 1/2 hours to uninstall all addons. I made a list with all the addons I uninstalled, 125 I counted. 22 of them could not be uninstalled because of various reasons, mostly they were not found at their original location.
I will now clean up the registry, remove all traces of all Prepare3D versions on my PC and then start from scratch.
Karl
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I'm up and running again. On V5.1HF1 vanilla. Just flying a leg for MFC with the Maule and all standard settings, also standard scenery.
I excpect it working now.
After that I will start to implement scenery and airplanes.
Karl
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It looks good so far. I have Tongass in and ORBX. There is one thing that doesn't seem right. Synching in ORBX Center puts airports between base scenery of P3D. For example S45. I made a vide. But it looks ok, doesn't it?
https://vimeo.com/482340897
Karl
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After I installed all my ORBX addons the crash was back again. I think tracked it down to the ORBX HD buildings. That's my best guess at the moment, because I can reproduce it:
- HD Buildings insatalled -> crash
- HD Buildings not installed -> no crash
I made a ticket at ORBX support, let's wait what they say.
But, it makes sense because at some point of time after installing HF1 I reinstalled all ORBX Global parts and the building and tree parts.
So, with no HD Buildings installed I can fly without crashes at the moment.
Karl
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Hi Karl,
Your initial pic post indicates that the video card is crashing. If it is a Device Hung Error, how much VRAM is available right before you get the error?
Rod
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Hi Rod,
I have to check. I will do a video, so the last frame before the screen goes black can be checked.
Karl
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But I think it was not more than 5 from 10 GB
Karl
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The orbx add-on xml stuff is creating a weird in your scenery.cfg. Might need to make a phantom scenery folders to use to set up the top insertion point.. (IE: Third party Libs-top). And use the tongass lower as the bottom insertion point.. hopefully when sync, that might put all the entries in the correct order.. (If not, then you'll have to edit some of those ORBX add-on.xml to change some of those orbx region/airport layers# to force them to go to their correct intended location which is above Tongass.
Orbx central can make a mess of the layering.. but then, so can Lorby!
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For anyone getting a Device Hung Error (P3Dv4.3 and above usually) on a Windows 10 64 bit OS:
with Nvidia drivers:
The problem: a thing called TDR checker monitors the computer’s hardware, particularly the GPU. When the GPU stops responding with the computer for 2 seconds TDR checker restarts the driver. The TDR checker was good on paper but did not work in the real world as a GPU can stop responding when it is working hard.
Here is the solution that worked for me, it requires an extra sub key entry into the Windows registry, so please only implement if you feel OK with editing your registry!
- Exit all Windows based programs,
- Click on the Windows Start button, type regedit in the Search box,double-click regedit.exe from the results above.
If you are prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation,
- Browse to and then click the following registry subkey:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers
- On the Edit menu, click New, and select the QWORD (64-bit) value from the drop-down menu,
- Type ‘TdrLevel’ as the Name and click Enter,
- Double-click TdrLevel and set the value as 0 (it is set to that by default, but double check) and click OK,
- Close the registry editor and restart your computer for the changes to take effect!
I saw this fix mentioned earlier in this thread, but make sure you create a Qword (64bit) key for Windows 64 bit OS and NOT a Bword (32 bit) key because that will not give the right result.
If you encounter a DXGI hung/removed error again please make sure that this key still exists in your registry!
It happened to me once that the key vanished after a Windows Update, resulting in the dreadful DXGI hung error once again.
Further notes:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/hpc/Working-around-TDR-in-Windows-for-a-better-GPU-computing-experience-777/
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Thank you Norm. The registry entry is in my registry, always was.
Top insertion for ORBX (what you see in the video) is LOIJ, bottom insertion is TF lower. All the airports look allright, though. I didn't check all, but some.
Karl
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Rod, it reads:
4.4/10.0 GB
Karl
Hi Karl,
Your initial pic post indicates that the video card is crashing. If it is a Device Hung Error, how much VRAM is available right before you get the error?
Rod
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Nick from ORBX says it's ok:
https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/202342-orbx-central-sync-simulator-strange-scenerycfg/
Karl
The orbx add-on xml stuff is creating a weird in your scenery.cfg. ..
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It's getting worse.
After installing vanilla V5.1HF1 and all my ORBX addons I had a scenery library order that was ok. No ORBX addon on top.
Today suddenly I had ORBX elements on top after doing the Sync. From that time on I'm getting more CTDs.
Here is a video, ORBX HD Buildings is disabled:
https://vimeo.com/482603333
I will now uninstall all ORBX addons. I'm sure I will not have any crashes then anymore. Fter that I will start adding one by one to see what happens.
It's a bit frustrating. Thinking about flying in MSFS.
Karl
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Rod, it reads:
4.4/10.0 GB
Karl
Well, that certainly is not the problem. Since your crashes are all graphics card device hung errors, is windows 10 and the nVidia driver up to date?
Rod
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Yes, Rod, I checked that. Everything is up to date. Winver shows 20H2, Nvidia driver is 457.30. I even did a complete uninstall with DDU and reinstalled the driver.
But I found something now: Starting at some airports P3D does not crash immediately, it only crashes after some time into the flight.
On some airports it crashes immediately after loading.
I have to investigate this.
Karl
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It must be connected to ORBX somehow. Yesterday, before I installed my ORBX addons I was in the air for several hours, including a MFC leg.
Karl
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Maybe I found it. When I installed V5 I copied over the ORBX freeware airport pack. Until V5.1 this wasn't a problem. Obviously %.1HF1 has a problem with it.
I got rid of them and don't have a crash any more. I'm now flying a leg.
Let's see how it goes.
Karl
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Ok, this did fix some crashes, I just finished another leg. But it didn't fix the crash when ORBX HD Buildings are installed.
So, I uninstalled ORBX HD buildings and the freeware airports I copied over from V4. Other than that I think I just can hope that it will not crash.
Karl
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Oh boy Karl.. Yes have heard Nick say the same to others concerning addons by xml- That order doesn't matter.. But my pea brain keeps saying that it still makes a difference, especially for LC type scenery pieces- IE: Default Terrain/bases, LC, full fat regions, Tongass etc, where we have always thought that their layering position has to be correct and it does matter.
Certain things like the default pieces/bases/terrain are supposed to load first and will lay odds that OC (Orbx Central) has messed up your scenery.cfg for one, and for two, possibly your terrain.cfg.
Also, you updated GPU drivers, so might be best turf your old shaders folder, sceneryindexes64 folder and prepard3d.cfg and let the sim rebuild them all with your new configuration. (after check your terrain.cfg but until the orbx stuff is correct
I guess as long as you didn't see issues in your sim it doesn't wouldn't matter but continuous CTD etc, something is definitely messed up. Best to go back to vanilla I think to get that working as intended before doing anything else with orbx stuff etc.. very frustrating. (If you use Lorby, (I won't), but if so turn it off cause it is just as bad as orbx central for messing up correct layering). (I'll shut up now.).
If there is anything that we can do to be a help just yell or email and can try to help via voice comms... etc.
Norm
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Thank you very much, Norm.
Everything started to go wrong with 5.1 HF1. Before I had the Device hung crash only once when I wanted too much from my GPU in TE NC and Flightbeam KSFO.
Another story from today: I purchased ORBX LOWW, installed it, fired the sim up and had a crash immediately. I fiddled around with the layerings of Austria Professional HD in relation to LOWW and got it working.
Maybe 5.1HF1 is just a bit more "vulnerable" than previous versions?
Anyway, good to know that there are people here that can and will help if help is needed.
Karl
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Hi Karl,
Just a quick quesiton on the freeware airports that you said you copied from v4. Not sure if you mean the Global Airport Pack. If you do, I show it as avaible for direct install in Orbx Central when set to P3Dv5. Just wondered why you copied it from v4. Of course, I might have the wrong software that you are talking about.
Rod
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Rod, yes, it is the ORBX freeware airport pack. When V5 arrived that pack was not available for the new version. Later then ORBX made it available "as is". I did not install it and kept the pack I copied.
What I could do, and probably will do, is to try the pack from ORBX. There are several freeware airports where my V5.1HF1 crashes immediately after startup (using the V4 pack).
And, again, this worked until and including V5.1 with no troubles. Maybe there is a special relationship between V5.1HF1 and my hardware.
Thinking about it the problems started when I saw that strange laydring in the scenery library after syncing in ORBX Central (after installing HF1).
Mostly problems like this one are a combination of more than one factor and we have some factors her: P3D software, ORBX, hardware, driver.
Karl
Karl
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HI Karl,
I think Orbx got some volunteers to make some changes to the v4 Global Airport Pack and then they incorporated those and that is why they offered it as is for P3Dv5. I would recommend using the v5 version since I think it has some changes from the v4 version..probably has nothing to do with your crashes though...
Did you check to see if disabling the nVidia audio driver (s) (only a few users use nVidia audio from an HDMI cable) found in your Device Manager under Sound made a difference in getting the hang? Sometimes nVidia opens multiple audio drivers and they have been known to hang the graphic card....
Just a thought.
Rod
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Hello Karl,
I‘m sorry to read about your problems....
I have now P3dv5.1 HF1 installed and have no problems so far. It is running well and I have no CTD‘s.
I have also lots of ORBX stuff installed including the freeware global airport pack for v5. It seems to work fine.
Also ORBX HD Buildings is installed with no issues so far.
By the way, I updated client and content, but not scenery yet.
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I now tested the ORBX free airport pack available for V5. KPNA is an airport where I had immediate crashes with the old pack from V4.
And you know what? No crash. You are surely right, Rod, that this pack is different. Did work up to 5.1 but not in HF1 any more, obviously.
Your hint concerning the audio driver is a good one. I will test that. Hmm.... I'm nearly out of crashes now. Haha!! I still can cause a crash when enabling the HD buildings. I will test it with that one.
Klaus, under no circumstances update the scenery!
.... I'm joking of course. :)
Karl
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I made this video in the first place to show the crash. But there was none. So this is now a boring short video over KPNA in a nice aeroplane (DH.104 Dove from Just Flight).
https://vimeo.com/482772740
Karl
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This morning I started to try Rods suggestion deactivating Nvidias HD Audio driver. But I still get DXGI errors.
Desperately I even dismantled my PC, reseating the 2080TI and reconnecting all plugs. My hardware is not even 2 years old, power supply is a BeQuiet 1000W. I even set the BIOS back to default, disbling CPU OC. But, no joy. Still everything works fine in MSFS and other games.
I'm not sure what to do now. Two possibilities:
1) go back to V5.1 without HF1. I still have a backup of those installation files.
2) start from scratch with V5.1HF1
Possibility 1 is unsure because when I installed 5.1 over 5.0 HF2 (I think it was) I only installed the client. I think I go for posibility 2.
Karl
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I need a break for some days from P3D.
Maybe you will see some posts in the MSFS part of our forum. ;D
Karl
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I've flown twice now without a CTD with v5.1HF1. I did do a total reinstall. The only problem I found that caused some initial issues was I had reinstalled the Twin Otter from Aerosoft (which is quite out of date) and it did seem to cause a CTD until I removed it. Since then it has worked fine. RTMM works fine too.
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Sounds good!
Rod
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Ok, the break was long enough now. Feels like 4 days already anyway.
I start my next try. Uninstalling everything and then a clean installation again.
Just for verification: V5.1HF1 is
5.1.12.26829
Is that correct?
Thx,
Karl
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That is the correct version number!
Rod
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I've flown twice now without a CTD with v5.1HF1. I did do a total reinstall. The only problem I found that caused some initial issues was I had reinstalled the Twin Otter from Aerosoft (which is quite out of date) and it did seem to cause a CTD until I removed it. Since then it has worked fine. RTMM works fine too.
I'm already up and running again with V5.1HF1 vanilla. No crashes. But also no ORBX.
Here is the TwinOtter in V5.1HF1:
https://vimeo.com/483205597
Karl
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I forgot: you need to update the exe.xml for the Flight Recorder.
Karl
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That is the correct version number!
Rod
Thank you Rod!
Karl
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I have a vanilla installation now that worked and didn't work after some time. I know exactly what I changed, as I wrote it down.
I'm chasing it! I picked up the scent already!
Karl
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Good diagnostics Karl!!.. Keep posting on the troubleshooting saga!! so we'll know what to look for and how to cure it!
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It may be of interest that Nick Cooper over at Orbx posted an update pathway on May1st in P3Dv5 forum on up dating to v5 .1 hotfix
I have used Poppets P3D update advice over the years on Avsim boards which always worked well
I took the plunge and transited from v5 to v5.1hf1 using Nicks pathway
All Addons stayed in place within the P3Dv5 folder and in P3Dv5 Addons
Remarkable
All Carenado planes and Flight1GTN 750/650+WX Radar working(All RTMM Libraries and Sceneries too of course)
Worth a look especially as I understand Poppet has left the flight sim scene -temporarily I hope
xxd09
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Thank you. Yes, that's definitely something to concider.
But, at the moment I have a vanilla installation with no ORBX involved (everything uninstalled completely) and still get device hung errors.
Karl
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I reached saturation point with my sims some months back
Win 10 would not update to then current version 2004 etc etc
Wiped the hard drives ,reformatted and reinstalled Win 10
Not looked back since
A bit drastic but probably will have to do it again before I die!
xxd09
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Karl - do that TDSR timeout thingy to stop/reduce the device hung errors. It's that TDR delay in response that is causing the "HUNG" error. So if you fix put in those few reg edits, it should stop those device hung errors.
On P3Dv4.3 and above on Win10 64bit, Nvidia GTX/RTX and latest drivers.
The problem: a thing called TDR checker monitors the computer’s hardware, particularly the GPU. When the GPU stops responding with the computer for 2 seconds TDR checker restarts the driver. The TDR checker was good on paper but did not work in the real world as a GPU can stop responding when it is working hard.
Here is the solution that worked- it requires an extra sub key entry into the Windows registry, so please only implement if you feel OK with editing your registry!
- Exit all Windows based programs,
- Click on the Windows Start button, type regedit in the Search box,double-click regedit.exe from the results above.
If you are prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation,
- Browse to and then click the following registry subkey:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers
- On the Edit menu, click New, and select the QWORD (64-bit) value from the drop-down menu,
- Type ‘TdrLevel’ as the Name and click Enter,
- Double-click TdrLevel and set the value as 0 (it is set to that by default, but double check) and click OK,
- Close the registry editor and restart your computer for the changes to take effect!
I saw this fix mentioned earlier in this thread, but make sure you create a Qword (64bit) key for Windows 64 bit OS and NOT a Bword (32 bit) key because that wil not give the right result.
If you encounter a DXGI hung/removed error again please make sure that this key still exists in your registry!
It happened to me once that the key vanished after a Windows Update, resulting in the dreadful DXGI hung error once again.
Norm
(PS: I lost my OS drive 3 weeks ago.. it was an old drive that was starting to fail. So yanked it and redid everything from the OS on a new SSD to putting in 2 more SSD for the sim stuff, then while I was at it redid/moved all the drives in the case and cleaned up the wiring to create more breathing room and better air circulation. The RTX GPU's run fairly hot so they need as much room and ventilation as possible. Took a bit to do every thing but all good now!!)
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Thank you Norm, you mean this, right? I did that. It doesn't help in my case unfortunately:
https://vimeo.com/482603333
Karl
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I'm just flying leg 13 of MFC0047. No ORBX installed, no scenery at all installed in the US.
The more options I switch on in the menu, at some point I get the error. Still i don't know what it is exactly, seems to be some combinations.
At the moment I seem to have a stable Prepar3D.cfg.
I have to do further tests.
Karl
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Hi Karl,
Did you test your RTX 2080 Ti in debug mode to see if that helped? Debug mode is under Help in nVidia control panel and tells the driver to ignore overclocks including reseller overclocks as I understand it. Its just a on/off option (checkmark). Just a thought....
Rod
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Yes Rod, thanks, I have that switched on.
Today I again dismantled my PC and reseated the 4 RAM sticks. Just to be sure. I then tested everything with Prime95, so CPU and RAM is ok.
If the GPU would have a problem I guess I would experience at least some troubles in MSFS or other games, but everything else runs just perfectly.
I finished leg 13 with no problems. I will now switch on more options and fly leg 13 in reverse order.
Karl
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Hi Karl,
Did you test your RTX 2080 Ti in debug mode to see if that helped? Debug mode is under Help in nVidia control panel and tells the driver to ignore overclocks including reseller overclocks as I understand it. Its just a on/off option (checkmark). Just a thought....
Rod
Rod, it's this flag, right? That's what I have switched on to try if the errors go away.
Karl
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Hi Karl,
See image below. It show debug mode turned on. It is under Help (Hilfe). You just click on it and then when you look at the drop down again, it will show the checkmark.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/u70izwfkhltx7um/nVidia%20Debug%20Mode.jpg?dl=0)
This then forces card to run at standard clock rate.
Rod
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Thank you, I was too stupid to follow your explanation.
But it doesn't help, it still crashes. I found that it crashes when my GPU is under high load (many features turned on in Options) . With the Debug switch on, MSI Afterburner shows that the card doesn't boost as high as before.
Without Debug mode it boosted to 1920MHZ, now it's only 1815MHZ. Those 1815MHZ still go past the red little "Boost" triangle in MSI Afterburner.
I also changed from the Nvidia game ready driver to the studio driver. It is more robust, so it crashes later.
And, I found something. Just have to test it and create a screenshot. I show it in my next post.
Karl
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V5.1HF1 shows wrong GPU RAM usage. And it does not switch off EA if RAM is low.
And that caught me.
Take a look at the screenshot.
Karl
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Full size screenshot:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mck6ed3r2zgd3cv/Crashes.jpg?dl=0
Karl
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But that is correct obviously:
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/590251-wrong-gpu-ram-display-in-v51hf1/
Karl
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Hmmm... Not sure what is going on Karl. Might try to delete your default prepar3d.cfg as well as the shaders now that the new studio driver is installed.. and try to give it a run it in default configuration before doing anything else. Sure sounds like there something that is messing up the GPU..
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Hi Karl,
Well, I have exhausted my knowledge. Not sure what the issue is. Make sure you turn off debug mode and turn off enable developer settings since neither one seems to help.
Hopefully, something will pop up...I will keep my eyes open..
Rod
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Ok. I will do what you suggest, Norm.
And thank you Rod.
There must be something in P3D that is causing this issue together with my hardware. All other games work. I thought I could test my GPU with 3DMark from Steam?
Karl
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3DMark on Steam is -85% now.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/223850/3DMark/
Karl
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After 2 days now I'm up and running again, but on V5.1 without HF1.
I made many different efforts with HF1, but nothing helped. I made tests for my 2080TI and my CPU, but they showed that my hardware is ok.
At the end I had a Prepar3D.cfg that crashed vanilla 5.1HF1 immediately after starting up into the default scenario (F-35-A at KRND).
I uninstalled everything and installed 5.1 (that is version 5.1.8.26742). That worked. For a test I installed the HF1 client, just the client, and immediately had the DXGI hung error again. Going back to the 5.1 client, everything worked again.
For me this is the only possibility now: stay at 5.1 without HF1.
Karl
p.s.: also ORBX Buildings HD are working again - ;D
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Oh boy.. well that 5.1 HF1 didn't go well Karl. Much time and effort spent only to have you revert back to the previous version. So frustrating! Hope you write LM on your troubles. Maybe it will find a dev there who might fix this problem in 5.1 HF2? ARG!!
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Norm, I will leave it as is for now. As soon as the next version (either HF2 or 5.2) shows up and I experience the same thing, and I can reproduce it in vanilla P3D, I will definitely try to talk to LM.
But now I'm back to flying, that's the most important! ;D
Karl
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Hi Karl,
Glad you are flying again!
Rod
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Hello Karl,
I‘m sorry this went so bad for you......it‘s good your back in the virtual skies now.
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Maybe this is of interest to some of you:
https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6315&t=140629&p=232118#p232118
Starting at the 4th post in that thread I did some tests. I wonder why Martyson wanted me to load that mission. He must know or at least suspect something?
Karl
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Hi Karl,
Did you see this recent Orbx forum post?
https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/202665-important-digi_device_hung-notam-error-and-enforced-shutdown-of-p3d-v51-dx12/ (https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/202665-important-digi_device_hung-notam-error-and-enforced-shutdown-of-p3d-v51-dx12/)
Rod
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Thank you Rod, I did not see this. I will immediately test this. (Well, after the F 1 qualifying).
Karl
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Rod, thx, but it didn't help. DXGI in 5.1HF1, not in plain 5.1
My big hope is Rob Ainscough, he has the same problem and sent some error reports to LM.
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/590414-just-flight-146-professional/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-4421743
Karl
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Hi Karl,
Bummer! Hopefully, Rob A. will help get to the solution.
Rod
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Looks like done!
https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6315&t=140629&start=90
Karl
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Great news!
Rod
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That Enable Bathymetrie caused this?? Oh man! Great Find Karl.
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Yes, I hope this works out. But they said in the LM forum that another user also found this.
I'm now transiting to HF1. Will take some time with all the addons.
Karl
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Wow, great find Karl!
It‘s always unbelievable which settings can cause issues.
I guess, I‘d never had the idea that the bathemetry setting could cause the problems.
As long as it‘s in P3d I never had turned it on.
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10 legs now with more than 7 hours flight time and no crash. That's promising. All addons are in.
Karl
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Great Karl.. Guess LM will have to have another fix in development to fix this issue!