Misty Moorings Forums
Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D/MSFS2020) => Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 => Topic started by: jeff3163 on July 30, 2020, 09:46:16 PM
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I thought I'd share a video that Squirrel just put out. A first look in
W I D E S C R E E N H D
of the upcoming MSFS2020. I am about to watch it . . . enjoy it with me! :)
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That was a good video. Thanks, Jeff!
Rod
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Thanks, Jeff. I've been subscribed to the "Aussy" on YouTube and those videos have been great throughout this process. My question on this is, which platform?
It looks like the basic charge is $59 no matter who is selling it (unless you get the deluxe programs). But one big difference I see for PC is space! If you order it in disks or digital from Amazon, it is 10 disks or digital equivalent and 150 GB on your disk drive. (That is a pretty HUGE program). With Steam, it only gives your disk a 2 GB space hit.
I'm going to have to keep Prepar3D V3.5 and 5 to keep up the RTMM site. So I doubt I'll be flying the new FS2020 the same way. I'll probably be flying it quite differently, and probably more realistically. But won't be doing all the scenery stuff, etc. So I wonder if I would be just as well off with the Steam system. I use the Train Simulator and those graphics are great, but I wonder about the difference in the interface with the joystick for Steam vs Microsoft?
Doug
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8) He's popped out another one . . . enjoy!
Landing on Water - Microsoft Flight Simulator - Icon A5
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8) . . . another one. :)
Icy Conditions - Microsoft Flight Simulator - Cessna 172
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Jeff,
Note the lack of wake for the Icon A5 in the video. It makes me wonder what kind of parcticle effects system MSFS 2020 has. Wake effects? Waterfall effects? Smoke effects? hmmmm....
Doug,
I think Steam has accidentally cut off the rest of the MSFS 2020 requirements on their website. Those storage requirements are for the VRAM on the graphics card. They left out the 150 HDD storage requirement. Compare the Microsoft application requirements to the Steam requirements and you can kind of see what happened.
Rod
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Yes I see that now, Rod. There is a VERY TINY wake behind the Icon, barely visible. The lack of wake threw me a little too. With the terrific water in this sim, I thought they might add a boat or two...but no wakes?
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It looks like MSFS 2020 will have a number of missing or problematic things (helicopters, effects, etc.) at first release. It is a giant leap in terms of detailed scenery around the globe but, as with any new sim, there will be many things to be fixed/added later. I also don't expect it to offer those beautiful scenes in Alaska which lacks high quality aerial images and good OSM data.
For me, MSFS 2020 will be the "fun to fly around and sightsee' sim expecially outside the Orbx region areas including TrueEarth. TrueEarth US Washington, Oregon and Northern California are truly spectacular. It will be interesting to see how well MSFS 2020 runs on my 5 year old processor. (4790K) which is only a quad core.
inside the Orbx regional and TrueEarth areas, I will still be flyhing P3Dv5, most of the time, which has become super solid for me and much faster than P3Dv4. The only issue I have is those darn blue outlines on some of the trees without EA (enhanced atmospherics) turned on. That needs to be fixed. I don't use EA since it adds .5 or .6 to my available VRAM which has become a preciouse commodity. Also, I hate the pixel flashing issue, when clouds meet the terrain horizons in EA mode, even more than the blue outlined trees.
It is a great time to be a simmer with not one but three front line Sims to choose from: P3D, MSFS 2020 and X-Plane.
Rod
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:) Good morning. Here's the next one . . .
VFR Night Flying - Microsoft Flight Simulator - Robin DR400 (EGMC-EGLC)
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I’m thinking I will prob use FS2020 to virtually learn to fly “more realistically”, with ATC radio, Flight procedures, engine procedures, etc. and like you, Flight-seeing. In V5, the graphics, weather, etc are VERY good. And with RTMM, going out to the cabins will always be a treat. It will prob be as dif for me as using the train simulator which I think is fun. But watching these new vids coming out, it really does look amazing.
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Wow. Pretty amazing. The next simulator is indeed impressive. I did notice some stuttering on final on that last video landing at night in London. That's with a 2080 TI too!! Ouch. Well, until I can afford to upgrade my system, I'll be using P3D and enjoying the videos from those that can take on the new simulator.
I'm currently still without a simulator at the moment due to a error 43 code issue with my current rig. So, I've gotta get that taken care of first.
Brad
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Since this probably has some FSX DNA, perhaps the FSX Effects will play and our traffic bgl files will also if we can get the simobjects converted to play in FSXX. I hope the SDK will answer those questions.
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:)
What's Multiplayer Like in Microsoft Flight Simulator? (Bush Flying, Storms, Jets)
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8) Well, that was a good first look from a few perspectives. His next video is a commercial jet flight, so I don't think I'll post it here. You can go to his channel and see it if you want to. ;)
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Thank you very much for these videos. It is true that it is very attractive. But I'm waiting for the first feedback from my colleagues and other users. See you
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Simply as AMAZING as these videos are for a simulator at 60 bucks...one can opt for a more deluxe version which provides more hand crafted airports and what looks like high quality aircrafts in fact all of the default aircraft look payware quality at a high level as well and at 60 or 119 USD one still gets the same base simulator already packed full of addons which one would pay hundreds of dollars for but, already comes with the base game. The weather engine alone is second to none at this point and it cones with the game.
NO OTHER producer of a Flight Simulator at the moment can even come close to what MSFS 2020 has accomplished with worldwide breathtaking coverage at the selling price of 60 bucks Please keep in mind the videos are Alpha builds. No doubt the Beta has improvements and the release version even more.
xPlane and P3D studios really need to step it up BIG TIME to complete IMHO.
...just remember nothing is perfect out of the box with FS... it’s always a involving process... always work in progress just like RTMM always something to improve.
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Zoolander 64 has set up some interesting info sessions on the Teamspeak TS3 digital theme park, flight division server, starting tomorrow concerning the upcoming release of MSFS 2020.
Discussions/info sessions on various aspects of simming and thus new sim release will be starting tomorrow Wed Aug 12th and will run daily through to the big release of MSFS 2020 on Aug.18th.
(TeamSpeak, -->connect to the ts3.digitalthemepark.com server)
For more details, information, session times etc see Zoolander64's post on this site or go direct to the digital theme park website..(hosted by Zoolander64).
Link below:
https://digitalthemepark.com/2020/08/11/microsoft-flight-simulator-release-party/
Norm
PS: for those unaware we also have TS3 comms (MFC-RTMM channel) on this same digital theme park server (for group flights etc) and we also have another comms server on Discord.
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Hi guys. I've been gone for over a year due to the Camp Fire. Feel like a third world foreign exchange student dropped into a college prep course. I was a MSFSXdx10 simmer. I read about this new release coming out some time ago so thought I'd wait before jumping back in whole-hog. Now's the time. My questions are basic at this point. Will this be a matter of simply deleting MSFSX and installing MS2020 in its place? Will my ORBX, RTMM packages and 3rd party AC work? (Beaver, Carenado). DX10 gone? Steve's Fixer no longer needed?
Makes my head swim. Is this basically a stand-alone sim? A little overwhelming. Thanks for your indulgence.
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FSXX is a new sim and it appears to have some of the FSX DNA. All existing aircraft, sceneries and AI will require conversion. Orbx has announced the beginning of conversion of some of their airports for a minimal fee.
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Thanks, Dex. Kinda what I figured. Stand alone until AC and sceneries become converted and available. Where is RTMM on this? Is anything compatable at this point?
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"""Where is RTMM on this? Is anything compatable at this point?"""
According to all informations available so far, I'm afraid the RTMM sceneries will not be compatible at the moment.
Even the SDK/software development kit will also not be part of the 08.18.2020 release.
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I've been watching everything there is to see on YouTube (Squirrel and Aussie are best). After spending so much time, it is almost like having actually flown it. But from everything I can see, "our" area has been totally left out. To start with, we will have one amphib (Icon) ... which is "iffy" for water operations (no drag to stop) ... and nothing to "go look at" except another airport. It is a totally different kind of flying.
From an "inside source" ... the cabins, of course, won't be there UNLESS Bing sees them through the foliage and then if Blackshark AI "sees them" they will probably set down a little commercial building rather than a cabin. So the "RTMM Experience" just isn't going to be there.
As Dieter said, the SDK for the Developers isn't even out yet or a part of the release. And it is confirmed "our stuff" will not work in the new sim. I really believe that sooner or later ORBX or someone like them will discover the huge "niche" of Alaska, water operations, Cabins, etc is totally there for the pickings. Everybody is excited about the new MAPS (airports) being designed ... I've never really understood why you want to pay GOOD money for an airport, then get in a plane and leave it behind. The default airports in FS2020 look pretty darned good anyway.
I'm pretty sure I will thoroughly enjoy the new simulator (I'm getting it thru Steam) and will probably spend hours with it. But I'm betting after I've "done it" for a while, I will probably RETURN to Misty Moorings. The P3D V5 scenery is beautiful, the V5 sim is nearly flawless and all of our addons are working so well. I'm betting I won't be the only one thoroughly excited about FS2020, but one who will also "come home" to Misty Moorings. Nothing like leaving a USFS cabin toward dusk and flying HOME!
Doug
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Here are my latest observations.:
I am starting to see issues showing up as users start posting videos of flying etc.
MFS2020 seems to have numerous issues when operating at water level.....when waves are big you can see water drawing issues around an Icon A5 when it hits the water. I am guessing Asobo has a bunch of work to do before floatplane operations will be fully viable.
Ground issues away from airports seem to show various object problems below rooftop level. I am sure that will be improved before helicopters are available.
There is also seems to be significant lighting issues when seeing conventional objects with many vertices intermixed with photogrammetry derived objects.
Choosing text for ATC response is so 90s. Where is the voice recognition like VoxATC.
There is no doubt that MFS2020 is a beautiful panorama. As always with new sims, its the close up details that are a challenge. MFS2020 is planning an update once/month. They definitely will need it. And, once the 3rd parties really get going, this sky is the limit for the future possiblities this are offered by MFS2020.
Hold on to your FSX and P3D sims (especially P3Dv5) because I think they will be the sims of choice for continuing operations in the RTMM world for some time to come. That said, I can't wait to try FS2020 out in another day or so.
Rod
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Hi Guys I'm ready for To nihgt download 90giga :o
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What a ratty way to download! I downloaded the "steam" software last night at 12:15 am. But that was ONLY THE Client for Steam! It didn't mention there was another 90Gig waiting for me in the morning. Started the download, at 7 or 90 GB downloaded had to install the new FS2020 version of NVidia driver. This knocked out my download and now I get to start over! There was no way it knew how to "pick up where it left off). It is literally going to take me a couple of days to get this downloaded. (So far, I'm not impressed!)
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Somewhere in Austria:
https://vimeo.com/448942559
Karl
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Way to go Karl!! Haven't even bothered with it yet.
Honestly, hate to say but not really impressed, looks more like a game than a sim. A hud and chart gauges..hmmm in GA aircraft? Flight path outlines.. Looks more tailored to new simmers. Orbx port over airports. (And I really don't need to find my house! - I know where is it is!)
I'm thinking that I'll be waiting a wee bit before taking a 159.99 (CAD) plux tax plunge for the MSFS2020 (premium/deluxe version).
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Brilliant video karl!
Say what you want its a great sim... yes work in progress but wow it a beautiful experience at least for me. Ok Microsoft and it authorization procedures is a bit strict...lol
The learning curve in the sim for me are the key Commands. After 25 years with basically using the same ones and now something different but after a hour or two in the sim it was getting better.
It’s not a P3D world that’s for sure FSXX seems gigantic in comparison to the overall ground area in P3D.
I flew around PAKT area in liquid smoothness with a flight environment to die for... the TREES WOW!
Flew over many RTMM areas and even over to Misty’s Place. Of course no RTMM scenery was there but it’s waiting.
Like everything new it is a learning curve and things are different.
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Somewhere in Austria:
https://vimeo.com/448942559
Karl
Nice video, Karl! Thanks! I have been flying MFS2020 in various areas for about 7 hours now. Many, many areas are superb (once you get used to the solid block bridges outside of some of the top city airports). It is a monumental accomplishment! It is too bad that Alaska just does not have the data to feed the MS2020 engine like so many places in the world do. So far, Alaska is the weakest area I have flown over.
I hope Pete make FSUIPC for MFS2020 so my instruments and secondary displays can connect to MFS2020. We shall see. There are many things missing for a home cockpit user. No pop up windows etc.
But the beauty of a good portion of the world is really captured in this new sim!
Rod
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FSUIPC7 already in Beta form - (for MSFS only) (by Dowson) It might work for your instruments -
FSUIPC7 is being released as a beta-version. It is currently not possible to purchase a license, but
a time-limited license, valid until the end of October 2020, is included in the download. We hope to
have a release version ready by then, if not I will extend the beta license.
LINK:
https://forum.simflight.com/topic/90193-fsuipc7-beta-for-msfs/ or
http://www.fsuipc.com/download/FSUIPC7.zip
Norm
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I'm suffering from microstutters:
https://vimeo.com/449062945
Karl
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Thanks, Norm!
Rod
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I finally got things running (18 hour download here!). It looks good, the ground objects are not as concise as I thought they would be. The control systems are VERY different, getting used to them. Flew over Misty's Place ... kind of sad. After the first 5 hours with it, I'm sure I will enjoy it, and I will probably be a better pilot, I'm learning some things. But from what I've seen, I will probably be ready to RETURN to Misty Moorings sooner than later.
Doug
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Looks more like a nice game (with very good graphics) than it does a workable "simulator".
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Looks more like a nice game (with very good graphics) than it does a workable "simulator".
Correct about very good graphics in fact a better word is stunning IMHO. Phew weee night flying is a entire new dimension.
A high tech flight Simulation it is, a step ahead of the competition in fact. PMDG is investing in the platform and they are a serious flight simulation in their own rights.
All I am missing is RTMM scenery but, I do have P3D V5 installed until then :)
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First of all, I don't have the FS2020 flight simulator and probably won't install it for longer time.
Have you ever flown over the wilderness of the Pacific Northwest or Alaska?
However, what I saw at a friend's place - he has excellent latest high-quality hardware - partially shocked me and cannnot be compared with what we have with P3D v4.x or v5 in no way!
Amongst other tings, different airports are missing, rivers are not properly flattened or drawn, lakes sit on plateaus (terrain issues) a.s.o.
Even well-known airfields in the wilderness are only marginally equipped with objects (new standard stuff I suppose).
And our beautiful RTMM sceneries cannot be integrated either.
For me this is an absolute "no go" at the moment. You cannot fly daily over those well equipped big airports which are are spread out worldwide and admiring them. This is not RTMM business.
Let's wait what the future will bring ...
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With all my heart Rod... Thank You!
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Way to go Karl!! Haven't even bothered with it yet.
Honestly, hate to say but not really impressed, looks more like a game than a sim. A hud and chart gauges..hmmm in GA aircraft? Flight path outlines.. Looks more tailored to new simmers. Orbx port over airports. (And I really don't need to find my house! - I know where is it is!)
I'm thinking that I'll be waiting a wee bit before taking a 159.99 (CAD) plux tax plunge for the MSFS2020 (premium/deluxe version).
Don't worry for me in france i don't have fiber as my Home Spain Balearics island ....
i donwlaod for a long time 21:30 hours with a simply ADLS the 95.3 giga :o
take your time and it's comming soon ;D
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Here is a link to an interesting section of "How-To..." posts in the Microsoft Flight Simulator Forum:
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/c/guides/new-pilot-help-guides/167 (https://forums.flightsimulator.com/c/guides/new-pilot-help-guides/167)
Rod
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MSFS2020 Keyboard Command chart has now been updated to version 3!
For those who are using MSFS2020, I have attached a revised keyboard commands chart that was originally posted by GtounetMS on MS forums. I have made one addition and several corrections. This is a must have if you don't have a keyboard commands chart.
I have been testing MSFS2020 a lot and will have more extensive comments soon including my thoughts on RTMM and MSFS2020.
Rod
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Great Rod and looking forward to all your thoughts and expertise here on MSFS2020
Maybe a new thread should be started or beter yet a forum...
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Thank you, Rod!
Karl
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8) So far, I love it. Runs smooth as silk for me. Long download, but worth it. Helicopters are promised "soon".
Sue
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After flying in the MSFS my P3d always crashes. Have to reboot before starting P3D, then everything is normal.
Karl
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I can't find PAVD (Valdez) ... hmmm not in 2020?
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8) PAVD does seem to be missing. OrbX will hopefully fix that soon.
Sue
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Amazing they have Thompson Pass, but not Valdez. That’s a pretty major exclusion. Thanks Sue.
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PAVD is only one of hundreds of airports overlooked in MSFS 2020. Don't try to go to Seward either. Many other airports are missing not only in Alaska but from all over the world.
There is an ongoing list of missing airports that have been identified and submitted. It is posted on the Microsoft flight simulator forum.
Link: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/missing-airports-sent-to-zendesk/165814
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That is an astonishing number of airports left out, and some really major ones. With all the beta testing going on, why the heck didn't they catch these?
I have to admit, I'm really struggling with 2020, crazy little things that don't make sense. I've tracked down several of them, but this one eludes me. Notice the little green number to the right of the aircraft, I only see this in the external camera view. It "overwrites" that is why it is difficult to see. I think it is an FPS counter, but that is turned off both in 2020 and in Steam. So I haven't a clue where it is coming from.
Also, if you put the game on PAUSE ... when you unpause it, get ready for the ride of your life!
Fun to struggle with it for a few hours, then come back to P3D v5 and ENJOY the hobby again with everything working so well. I remember P3D and the first version ... it was a mess too. These are complex pieces of software, but when they get "tuned" they can be a "wow!" I think we are dealing with something that will be an antique very soon, there is still a lot of work to do for them.
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You are correct. Microsoft/Asobo accidentally overlooked it. I am sure they know that by now. :o
Rod
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"""With all the beta testing going on, why the heck didn't they catch these?"""
I don't think the lack of this airfield and many others has been overlooked during the testing phases.
Fact is that many of the testers' inputs during the alpha and beta test phases were ignored and not implemented. At least that's my impression of what you can read in the many postings in different forums. This was also confirmed by 2 testers I personally know.
In addition, it might easily be possible that the French company "Asobo Studio" had not yet completely finished the project, but Microsoft, as the company in charge, put a lot of pressure on them and wanted to publish the FS2020 on the once estimated date. (This course is only pure speculation on my part.)
From my point ofview it's a "rough joke" and downright ridiculous that airfields with military facilities were largely left out or ground textures were designed blurred. Just one example: Stuggart/EDDS Germany - a big international airport - reason probably: US Europe Headquarters in the area.
Sarcasm on: Unfortunately, we now have banana software that ripens at the customer's : Sarcasm off.
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You are correct. Microsoft/Asobo accidentally overlooked it. I am sure they know that by now. :o
Rod
Actually, I was just speaking about Valdez in this post. Sorry for the confusion. I will have a longer post on my thoughts and some tips on MSFS2020 a bit later today....
Rod
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Just installed ORBX LOWI. Looks quite nice.
I tried to maintain locked 60 fps and also recorded with 60 fps. Still there are some small stutters. That's probably because the unlocked frame rate is just a bit above 60, always below 70. In other regions where I have a unlocked frame rate of over 80 the locked 60 are rock solid stable.
Locking to 30 doesn't work. Locking externally to 30 also doesn't work. One can only lock globaly, as Microsoft protects. the .exe. So there is no way to use half frame rate for the .exe in NCP.
https://vimeo.com/450848561
Karl
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Hi Kaha,
Could you tell me the problems when you locked to 30 inside MSFS2020? It seems to work for me.
Rod
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Rod, take a look at this video (password kaha30):
https://vimeo.com/451188911
I adjusted the settings so that the sim does unlocked 40+ fps. Locking to 30 slows it down to 20. Don't know why.
Karl
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If you are going from 2020 to V5, RESTART the computer or you'll get a Kernalbase.dll CTD.
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Yes, see Reply #44.
Karl
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Yep, well I guess I have to find out the HARD way! :-) Your vid was very helpful, I'll try that ... I'm getting some very slow frame rates. Bet that helps.
Doug
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It's not there. I reported that in the alpha a couple of times. They are probably wainting on their partner
Orbx to release their version which would be best.
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Comments on Microsoft Flight Simulator (MSFS2020) and RTMM Scenery
Contents
The Fantastic Visuals
The Not So Fantastic Visuals
The Big Miss: Multi-Monitor Support
General Disappointments including a few tips
RTMM Scenery and MSFS2020
The Fantastic Visuals
After spending a few days using MSFS2020, there is little doubt that the new technology used for rendering ground scenery around the world via streamed data (including photogrammetry) from Bing Maps etc. is a giant leap for flight simulation. It has tremendous potential. In many, many urban areas the scenery depiction is virtually photo realistic from a few hundred feet AGL. In the US, I took a look at a smaller city that I know well, (population under 1 million), Louisville, Ky. The screen shot below demonstrates what I am talking about. I can tell you from having lived there that it could also be a real life photo.
Louisville, Kentucky in MSFS2020
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/d3wzg96gt2ilfys/louisville.jpg)
In addition, if you drop your plane to a grassy area in many places of the world, there is a beautiful 3D layer of grass to be seen. Even at ground level, some visuals are very impressive. The other stunning visual is the lighting. It is excellent! There are a number of other things to rave about but I thought I would hit the biggest positive impacts for me. I can't wait to fly to cities around the world and enjoy the urban sights.
The Not So Fantastic Visuals
The stunning visual world, talked about above, loses much of its luster in some less populated areas of the world demonstrating how much hand work has to be done using the MSFS2020 tools to improve the initially generated visuals.
The area I will focus on first, to demonstrate some of the issues, is Alaska. Since I am part of the RTMM Staff, I certainly care about Alaska. Alaska's biggest city is only about 300,000 people. So big city beauty is not going to be the draw. Naturally, I went bush flying to see what I could see.
I first concentrated on The Western Chugach, my favorite area and the Ketchikan area. The mesh looks as good if not better than Orbx SAK. And the lighting and terrain overlay on the mountaintops is of very good resolution. Unfortunately, there are definite terrain issues in terms of elevation, road coloring, ortho seams, terrain tearing etc. What I saw on the ground did not impress.
My best guess is that the creators of MSFS2020 did not pay much attention to Alaska. This could be because the mapping data, aerial photos etc. are much sparser for this giant, but rugged state when compared to other states. It was probably never going to be gorgeous due to the missing data, so it seems it was not a high priority for Microsoft as of the release.
When I visited JLA(Quartz Creek Airport), I noticed that Kenai Lake was significantly too high in elevation. About the same time Robert Pomerleau (RTMM staff) sent me an email mentioning that a small 3rd party add-on site https://www.msfsaddons.org/ (https://www.msfsaddons.org/) (no relation to FSAddon) already had a patch for the water bodies in the Western Chugach general area of Alaska. Wow! All the water was too high! Did anybody from Microsoft even look at Alaska?
After installing the temporary patch (which was not from Microsoft), I decided to compare a real life pic, a pic from P3Dv5 with RTMM installed and a pic from MFS2020 showing the view from a small plane on final approach to JLA in The Western Chugach. See the screenshots below:
JLA in Real Life
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/f0sqxkb4m37838o/1%20-%20JLA%20Real%20Life.jpg)
JLA using P3Dv5 with RTMM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/3ucu7fqtplq40bk/2%20-%20JLA%20RTMM%20P3Dv5.jpg)
JLA using MSFS2020
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/3c5qdsv1s153ify/3%20-%20JLA%20MSFS.jpg)
There are several things to take note of when viewing the above screenshots. Clearly MSFS2020 shows its very advanced engine in terms of lighting (what a beautiful sight in the distance) and the density of trees is great, in the foreground, and far superior to what P3Dv5 can do within reasonable frame rates. Unfortunately, the trees, in general, are too short ( a commonly fixed problem, per an Asobo video, as the initial developers went from airport to airport to put in final touches). JLA certainly needs a touch-up visit.
Additional MSFS2020 problems seen at JLA are green roads, too much traffic on the roads (you can count 7 or 8 cars driving by all the time) and a lined asphalt runway even though JLA is a gravel/dirt runway as you can see in the real life photo. At about halfway down the MSFS screenshot you can see that the trees just stop. When you fly over that area, there is a very visible seam in the terrain overlay where the trees stop. It may be that there just wasn't any more mapping data available for vegetation. I don't know.
It looks like no one from the Microsoft team did anything to improve the initial problems at this airport after the automatic scenery generation was done from the data feed. When dong the whole world, it is to be expected that some remote spots are missed. I am, however, surprised that no one paid attention to one of the more popular areas for P3D/FSX scenery users and a world class fishing spot featuring one of the Princess Cruise Lines tourist hotels which, of course, is only portrayed by a couple of random buildings.
Next I stopped at Ketchikan (PAKT) to take a couple of comparative screenshots that are posted below.
PAKT using MSFS2020
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hm5mt1tzrcf5x3n/1%20-%20PAKT%20MSFS.jpg)
PAKT using Orbx P3Dv5
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/wnfc7cbwis8drb3/2%20-%20PAKT%20Orbx%20P3Dv5.jpg)
It is a credit to Orbx and RTMM on how well the P3Dv5 screenshot compares to the MSFS2020 screenshot. It literally looks better than the duller MSFS2020 rendering. And, most surprisingly the P3Dv5 version has the elevated sloping PAKT runway (thank you Orbx PAKT) and MSFS2020 does not. Again, no attention was paid to properly render the PAKT runway using the excellent slanted runway capabilities of MSFS2020.
The final stop I made was Valdez (PAVD). Unfortunately, PAVD doesn't even exist in MSFS2020's database. I had to jump there using the decimal coordinates of the locations which can be put in the search box just to the left and under the place where you put in your Departure airport. Apparently, Microsoft released MSFS 2020 even though they knew the airport was not there since multiple testers told them that. The only things that exist there are the terrain overlay showing the airport and some automatically placed generic objects.
There are many other missing airfields and adjusted visuals in Alaska. I can't help but wonder if Microsoft skipped working on improvements to these areas of Alaska because they are expecting one of their partners (like Orbx) to develop a southern Alaska enhancement. If this is not the case, then "what the heck were they thinking"?
The Big Miss: Muli-Monitor Support (includes some tips)
Multi-monitor support is almost non-existent. The home cockpit users are really unhappy. I conjecture that this big miss is due to Asobo only focusing on the single screen Xbox Series X as the main target market. I have four screens on computer in my home cockpit. Three screens represent the windshield since all my instruments are the 4th screen or on a 2nd computer that has two screens. It took me time just to get a working method to put the MSFS2020 display across the three screens.
These graphics settings were needed: Display Mode: Windowed, Full Screen Resolution: (set to your multi screen resolution). Then, if you were a FSX/P3D user you might try Alt+Enter in sim to jump to the Full Screen resolution for the star up windowed mode. If you never used FSX/P3D you might never know about Alt+Enter. It turns out that key combo makes the switch to Full Screen. There are a few issues when using Alt+Enter to go back to windowed mode. If, after switching back, you still have a window covering more than one screen or if the windowed display is squeezed, double click on the top window border and then again. You can also drag the screen to where you want it and double click the top border. That seems to work for me.
That was the easy part. Home cockpit users don't want a cockpit on the screen. Unfortunately, that option does is not seem possible in MSFS2020. I finally moved my viewpoint in the cockpit all the way forward and got rid of most of the cockpit and plane frame in the window. But it is still not as good as P3Dv5. Speaking of not as good as P3Dv5, when in triple monitor full screen mode, the left and right window are significantly distorted and all of the lights (runway, street etc.) appear have halos around them. This was an old set of known problems when doing wide screen gaming that have been solved or significantly mitigated in P3D. However, Microsoft just ignored this issue. There are also many more camera issues that would concern Home Cockpit users. There is lots of work for Microsoft to do here to make to make MSFS2020 viable for the Home Cockpit user.
General Disappointments including a few tips (in no particular order)
Note: There are many problems with MSFS2020. These are just some of the ones that I noted in no particular order. Many need fixes from Microsoft. For a few, I have suggested fixes.
1. MSFS2020 can generate snow falling (a bit of a gimmick) but there are no seasons.
2. There are no floatplanes or helicopters available at this time. If we did have floatplanes and you landed near the Kenmore Air seaplane base area at Lake Union, Washington, you might view the following MSFS2020 screenshot as you taxied to the dock:
Lake Union, Washington Seaplane Base (W55) approaching docks
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/h627v4ev6h1tdpf/Lake%20Union%20SPB%20area.jpg)
In order to achieve the photo realistic look, many of MSFS2020's urban building- scapes are produced via photogrammetry (conversion of 2D data to 3D pictures). Though these visuals can produce very realistic scenes from a hundred feet AGL, those 3D pictures take on a melted/sagging look when you get down to ground level as you can see above.
When seaplanes and helicopters do come, this will be one area that might reduce the visual enjoyment in the urban areas. Most of the random buildings in the more rural areas are not 3D pictures and do not suffer from this problem. Also, custom made models (e.g. Golden Gate Bridge) do not suffer from this problem.
3. Num Lock key needs to be on for this sim where it is off for FSX/P3D. I can only imagine that this was done with Xbox Series X in mind.
4. The old effects system from FSX is partially in place but rumor has it that it is going to be replaced down the road. Attempting to create effects at this time is probably not a good idea.
I guess Asobo thought so too since there isn't even a wake for the A5 when in water.
5. On my system, the MFS2020 start up sequence takes a 1/2 minute before you even know the app has actually started. This is terrible! I spend 30 seconds wondering if I really started MSFS2020 or not. It takes 4 minutes from start up to the first interactive screen assuming you "hit any key" quickly when the install process stops towards the beginning. P3Dv5 shows a splash screen instantly upon start and you can get to the options page in about a 1/2 minute if the first start and much quicker if it is a restart. I also don't like that the only way I can start MSFS2020 is using the pinned icon on my taskbar. If it is lost, I think there is an option at the Microsoft Store to recreate it on my taskbar again. Crazy!
6. Active Pause does not work well for me. Instead, I use a different function that Pauses the plane (it won't move no matter what) and keeps traffic moving etc. while allowing you to take the drone and go sightseeing. You just need to map two keyboard controls that are unmapped by default. Search for "Set Pause" and then bind "Set Pause Off with Right Control + P and Set Pause On with P. So far I haven't found a conflict with my key choices but if you do you can always bind these controls with some other key combination.
7. The "slew" option is almost worthless since the movement is way too coarse. I understand it works much better with an XBox controller...ugh! Microsoft needs to fix this.
8. The drone (Showcase) is an interesting feature. I am getting more used to it now that I have learned the most common commands (w,a, s, d, f, r for forward, left, backward, right and num keys 2, 4, 6 and 8 for pitch up, yaw left, yaw right and pitch down). Make sure you don't hold the num keys down or use num 5 unless you want your drone to rejoin your aircraft location which hasn't moved since you should now be using the keys recommended in Point #6 above.
9. There is no "Are you sure?" message (like P3D) when you accidentally hit the "X" at the top right of the window... just instant close. This needs to be fixed.
10. An example of Microsoft's myopic focus on a gaming Xbox Series X is the lack of an "in-sim" screenshot key. Yes, you can use Windows Key + Print Screen but it is inconvenient to have a high resolution .png format (over 6 MB for a three screen pic) file named Screenshot placed in the generic Screenshots folder with each pic having a number added to it since it is the same file name each time.
11. MSFS2020 is very closed and protected. I can't even see the main sim's files. That will definitely limit some of the good tweaking that has occurred over the years in FSX/P3D.
12. There are cracks in the terrain that show up here and there when bush flying down low. Here is a screenshot that I took not too far from JLA:
Terrain Crack Near JLA
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/t3bpup7br0fvryu/Terrain%20Crack.jpg)
12. As far as I can tell, there is no "go to" airport option or change aircraft option while flying. However, if you leave Development Mode on, those options can be used under the Windows drop down in the [Dev Mode] line when turned on. The options are Teleport Window and Aircraft Selector.
These are just a few of the "disappointments". There are many more. Once again, we are all being used as Beta testers. I am just hoping that Microsoft has plenty of time set aside to support the PC version because the flight model and visuals are great but there are many bugs and questionable design issues that need to be addressed.
RTMM Scenery and MSFS2020
Bottom line the main operation area of RTMM (Alaska) is not well depicted in MSFS2020. It needs many fixes and perhaps a 3rd party makeover. Until MSFS2020 is somewhat stable and fixed up which could take a long time, there is no reason to even think about moving RTMM to MSFS2020. That said, if the time ever comes to consider porting RTMM scenery, I have summarized my current thinking below.
Based on reading the MSFS2020 SDK and many other articles by flight sim developers, it appears that the scenery development process has evolved into preparation of scenery packages that contain things like .gfLT models that use .png textures as wells as xml files etc. These are then compiled as a whole for use by MSF2020. There are a number of "in-sim" tools to assist with this including a visual scenery placement tool called Scenery Editor.
There is some backwards compatibility allowed for with FSX/P3D but it seems to be at the .mdl file level. This means that if there was a desire to convert RTMM libraries for use in MSFS2020 sometime in the future, a major object library conversion would probably be needed. A few tools, like MCX would have to be used to make the thousands of .mdl files ready to be MSFS2020 objects. Based on the great lighting in MSFS2020, I do start to wonder whether objects without PBR features will stick out as not fitting with .gfLT models.
In addition, If RTMM did convert its objects someday, the scenery placements would probably all have to be adjusted or reconstructed due to different elevations and terrain visuals (big difference from land class) in MSFS2020. I know that Airport Design Editor is already being worked on to handle MSFS2020.
MSFS2020 is a work in progress that should become a well-working flight sim leader over time. For now, I will be flying over RTMM scenery and the Orbx TrueEarth sceneries in the Northwest US using P3Dv5 and I will be using MSFS2020 to fly to all other places that look terrible in default P3Dv5. That will be fun!
Rod
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Just installed ORBX LOWI. Looks quite nice.
I tried to maintain locked 60 fps and also recorded with 60 fps. Still there are some small stutters. That's probably because the unlocked frame rate is just a bit above 60, always below 70. In other regions where I have a unlocked frame rate of over 80 the locked 60 are rock solid stable.
Locking to 30 doesn't work. Locking externally to 30 also doesn't work. One can only lock globaly, as Microsoft protects. the .exe. So there is no way to use half frame rate for the .exe in NCP.
https://vimeo.com/450848561
Karl
Hi Karl,
Thanks! I see what you mean. I haven't paid much attention to frame rates since I knew my 5 year old CPU would be a little slow. It works great for P3Dv5 though.
Rod
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Spent my day on the graphics, watching the internal FPS (Developer on) panel. I've got it tweaked as good as I can get it, the biggest difference was turning off the V-SYNC. As soon as I did that, good things started to happen. It is a "process" that's for sure!
Great observations, Rod. I'm seeing the exact same things. Thanks also for the pictures, those really help us "see" what you are seeing and the differences.
Doug
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Great information here. Thanks to all for sharing your early observations.
Brad
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Thank you, Rod for your explanations.
Karl
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Here is where you can switch on Development mode:
Karl
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Hello Rod,
Thank you for your very detailed and well-founded summary of your view of the FS2020!
On the one hand you can discover excellent created visual landscapes on our globe but the prospects flying in the hinterland, our original core business, are unfortunately very bleak!
It will probably take a very long time (maybe years?) before we can admire our RTMM sceneries in this new simulator, if at all.
Although I did not install the FS2020, your report confirms my deepest fears based on the impressions I was able to experience at simmer friends who run the FS2020 already.
Therefore the P3D will probably be with us for a long time, which is in my view a very good replacement by the way!
Incidentally this should be a good reason for beginners/newcomers to install the "RTMM Complete Packs" in an uncomplicated way, provided for FSX and all P3D versions. They don't know what they're missing.
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Indeed great observations and review Rod. Appreciate all your time spent and sharing the findings (and tips) here at RTMM with this group of simmers.
Norm
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Somewhere in the US. Real Weather, different plane.
Crosswind landing in P3D, bumpy landing in MSFS.
P3D with NA Southern California:
https://vimeo.com/451570478
MSFS vanilla:
https://vimeo.com/451584770
Karl
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Good videos, Karl. This comparison will be a lot more interesting once TrueEarth Southern California comes out in a few weeks.
Rod
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Next comparison will be KTVL. I have the ORBX airport installed and it's located within TE NC (barely).
Karl
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Rod, will they ever have a TE Alaska?
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I'd also like to know.
Karl
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Rod, will they ever have a TE Alaska?
We all know that one of the key players at Orbx is Holger Sandmann and Holger loves Alaska. In addition, flight sim users always want to fly in Alaska. I imagine that Orbx would already have a TrueEarth Southern Alaska by now if the geospatial data, mapping data, aerial imagery etc. were up to the level of detail they need to do it.
Unfortunately, I don't think it is which has also set MSFS2020's effort back. Is their a possibility that Orbx will yet come up with an answer for a more detailed Southern Alaska in the future? I would say there are always possibilities...
Rod
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This is a comparison between MSFS and P3D landing at Lake Tahoe with real weather. Same time at around 9 a.m. local time.
Take a look at he moon in P3D. There is no moon now visible at Lake Tahoe. It is visible here at LOWI. Must be a bug in P3D.
And compare the weather between the both. Not sure how it looks like over there in real. More like P3D or more like MSFS?
P3D video: It's TE North California with KTLV from ORBX. The plane crosses the border from Nevada to California, entering TE space.
https://vimeo.com/451907671
MSFS:
https://vimeo.com/451913094
Karl
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Great comparison Karl. Weather wise my money is on MSFS. never flew into Lake Tahoe on real life, will need to check out youtube which simulation looks like the real thing. P3D looks like P3D with Orbx stealing the show and activesky. Compared to the base MSFS but , I like MSFS better looks wise... hopefully soon Orbx will have KTLV soon for MSFS. Which one felt better flying into Lake Tahoe.
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Direct Comparison of a P3Dv5 plus Orbx visual with a MSFS visual at the same exact location - all in one screenshot!
Some people have said they have to reboot their computer to run P3D after running MSFS. I don't have that issue and, in fact, I can have both P3D and MSFS loaded at the same time. Of course, I have to click on which screen I want to be active but it is great to do a direct comparison of scenery visuals to find out how well does P3Dv5 Plus Orbx look visually when compared to MSFS...at least just outside of Portland, Oregon.
I chose the Oregon City area less than 15 miles from downtown Portland "as the crow flies". I loaded P3Dv5 using Enhanced Atmospherics and Orbx TrueEarth Oregon. The P3Dv5 settings are moderate with Autogen and scenery draw distance on medium and vegetation and building density on Very Dense. I loaded MSFS set to High graphic settings (one step below Ultra).
The shot was taken facing towards downtown Portland from about 2,000 feet AGL and less than a mile away from OG20. It is one screenshot. I edited off the 3rd screen of my triple monitor system since it did not apply. Both sims were paused at the time of the shot. Bottom line: I was amazed at how well the P3Dv5 visual compared to the MSFS visual.
After you enlarge the image, if you right click and save the image to your desktop and then zoom in a bit more you can clearly see the downtown Portland buildings (the Portland Cityscape) on the P3Dv5 side of the screen about 1/3 in from the left a little bit below the horizon. This makes sense as the high buildings should be visible in real life on a day with very good visibility. Unfortunately, no buildings can be seen at that spot in MSFS2020. This is because the buildings at 15 miles on the horizon do not show up with High Graphic settings in MSFS. I guess you need Ultra which is too much for my 5 year old system.
See below for the single screenshot and judge for yourself. With P3Dv5 continuing to be my sim of choice until MSFS2020 gets all fixed up, I am glad to know I won't be missing missing great visuals since P3Dv5 plus Orbx has them too!
Looking North towards downtown Portland from the Oregon City area
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/x0rp900zxbm2sjc/OG20%20area%203.jpg)
Rod
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Good shot, Rod.
Also in your screenshot the P3D scenery looks much darker overall, as it does in my videos.
Karl
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... Which one felt better flying into Lake Tahoe.
Robert, P3D still is the sim that feels better, much better.
I know that it will take a lot of time and work to get MSFS to a handling level that can compare to my P3D installation. This of course will get better once there is an A2A aircraft or one like the RealAir Duke.
Karl
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Will be sticking with my current sim for a long time. (No choice in the matter).
The release of the first update containing fixes for MSFS 2020 (79 gb :o ) is expected Aug. 27th!
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Good shot, Rod.
Also in your screenshot the P3D scenery looks much darker overall, as it does in my videos.
Karl
Hi Karl, actually the darkness is caused a bit by EA which I hope Lockheed can improve when EA comes out of Beta. I could have raised the brightness a bit with the P3D lighting settings.
See the same shot below but with EA turned off which is bit lighter. I can even make it lighter via the lighting settings. I wish MSFS had lighting settings along with a few hundred other things because I would like their visual to be a bit darker. I did most of the postioning to match the scenes using P3DV5 because of the less friendly movement options using the MSFS drone.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/9crynpiob1v7whi/OG20%20area%203%20No%20EA.jpg)
Rod
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Here is a youtube link of a C182T real life approach and landing in Lake Tahoe
https://youtu.be/rlrEUt9oMvY
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Thank you Robert.
Difficult to say. THe weather, for me, seems to be much closer to P3D EA. All the haze that I never saw in MSFS.
The video is too light, they used a wrong exposure value. So it's difficult to judge about the landscape.
Karl
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Saw a terrain irregularity in P3D. When flying the same route in MSFS the artefact was there as well. Here is an image on my OneDrive share.
@Rod: I am not able to have both sims running on my PC at the same time so I had to trick it with Photoshop:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjaGV13seqR9oop9rEgMC03PKn186w?e=afpSF5
Coordinates are:
N35° 38.92
W118° 29.79
go to 6000ft
There is a tree growing on top of the artefact in MSFS!
Karl
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Hi Karl,
Good catch! Your pics show that Microsoft 2020 is probably using the same mesh data as P3D in that area. Not surprising since there is a lot of ESP underneath MSFS2020. Your terrain looks different than mine but I don't have Orbx Southern Cal region installed. I assume you do. Do you also have Orbx Kern Valley? You should report this artefact to Orbx and Micrsoft. Very soon Orbx TrueEarth Southern California will be coming out. I bet it might have the same artefact if nobody reported it.
Rod
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I found an excellent YouTube vid on how to "tune" up the computer to handle FS2020. I got almost a 25 fps bump by following this person's instructions. My "final tweaking" (settings for MSFS inside it), are a little different than his. But I was able to "up" the settings and still picked up significant fps.
YouTube Vid:
By the way, there is a FREEWARE Bush scenery out now, you can find it here at MSFSAddons (a new site):
https://www.msfsaddons.org/
Look under scenery for Quantam River.
Here's how things are looking for me in FS2020 over the Campbell River Area, running ave of 60 fps now, my screenshot is a little blurry, I "dumbed it down" to post it, but the REAL pic is very sharp and clear.
Doug
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.... I assume you do. Do you also have Orbx Kern Valley? ...
Yes, I have ORBX SC. But I don't have Kern Valley.
Karl
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This from Henrik on the Outhouse forum:
"MSFS2020 AI ships...
Today Knud managed to put the first of our ships into MSFS2020 - we are still far from understanding how it works, but to see one of the ships there tells us the Global AI Ship Traffic project can have a future in MSFS2020".
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That's good news!
Karl
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Wow, this thread is all over the place. I think the "First Look" phase is over by now. I suggest starting new threads for the various topics being discussed. ;)
Thanks 8)
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Agree with with Jeff 100%
...simply BRILLIANT with AIShiping.
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Thanks for news of those MSFS 2020 freeware Addons
Quatnam River and Machmell Fisheries loaded and looking good -certainly worthwhile bush strips
Now for Moh Creek and we have a fine little flight area in MSFS 2020
xxd09
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Is there a Moh Creek addon? (Where?)
Doug
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Not moh creek per say but a couple of bush strips and a few other scenery add-ons. plus some liveries etc.
https://www.msfsaddons.org/
Norm
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Sorry for misleading post
Moh Creek is a wish-not available-yet!
Haven’t tried flying there yet but I would presume nothing is present
xxd09
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Just flown to Moh Creek-there is a runway there!
xxd09
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This topic is locked. ;)