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Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D) => Help and Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Doug on July 04, 2019, 03:30:04 PM

Title: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 04, 2019, 03:30:04 PM
This is from the Hawaiian Airports package (Hawaii PhotoReal). All of the AI aircraft put in by the program are missing landing gear. Anybody ever see something like that before?

Doug

PS...update ... I added the picture
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: nbrich1 on July 04, 2019, 04:53:06 PM
We'll have to check the models as they may be pre P3Dv4x and might not be fully compatible?


PS: Happy 4th of July to all the USA contingent here.


Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: jeff3163 on July 04, 2019, 09:28:37 PM
Flying "low & slow"!   ;D  ???
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Bradallen43 on July 04, 2019, 11:14:50 PM
Those are AI aircraft that come with the George Keough airports for Hawaii. I also see that issue in the Hawaii photoreal with those airports. I believe that the issue is related to older models being utilized in the new P3D platform. Not sure if there's a fix that made available.

Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 05, 2019, 06:54:56 AM
Yes, you are correct. I took them all out. I was also having a prob at PHKO...when my screen view would change to a certain direction, it would CTD...repeatable. We had that prob a couple years ago with an AI object that caused that when we were at Misty’s Place. I think Steve and Dex figured that one out. The Keough airports are great, but his AI isn’t needed.
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: ualani on July 05, 2019, 07:40:18 AM
It wasn't me who worked on that problem. Must have been someone else.

Steve
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 05, 2019, 08:07:44 AM
Probably Dex. It was AI traffic, I remember that.
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: dexthom on July 05, 2019, 09:20:05 AM
Rod and I worked on some Tongass AI models.  Perhaps Rod did something in Hawaii.
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 05, 2019, 10:14:07 AM
Yes, now I remember, it was you and Rod. You found a boat that was "screwy" or something. It was amazing, you turned your view a certain direction (at Misty's Place, toward Herring Bay) and the sim would CTD. We took that boat our or fixed it and the problem went away. This is an identical problem. It CTD's when you point your view in a certain direction.  These are the AI aircraft that PhotoReal Hawaii suggests by George Keough.  Too bad, he has some nice models, but one or more of them are a poison pill. I took them all out and I think the problem is solved.

Doug
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: ualani on July 05, 2019, 10:42:16 AM
Most likely old, FS9 models.

Steve
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: dexthom on July 05, 2019, 11:46:01 AM
Most likely old, FS9 models.

Steve

I agree
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 05, 2019, 11:56:38 AM
Is there a way to somehow look at the model and know if it is FS9 ... maybe it's only one and I could delete that. I'm sure Javier (who runs the site) would be pleased to know.
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: ualani on July 05, 2019, 12:16:53 PM
Doug,
Send me the AI files, or tell me where I can get them from.

Steve
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 05, 2019, 12:18:50 PM
I'll shoot them to you.  Thanks for looking at it Steve.  It isn't an RTMM problem, but we do use the PhotoReal Hawaii for Escape from Misty Moorings (which I'm fixing up WITHOUT mesh!). He has a few neat objects we might be able to trade for if we find an easy solution.

Doug
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: rgerdes on July 05, 2019, 01:19:49 PM
Alpha India Group (AIG) has updated a lot of the models to P3D v4; See here:
https://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index.php?topic=25472.0
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 05, 2019, 02:03:48 PM
That is interesting ... THANK YOU ... got to keep that one as a reference.

Doug
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 05, 2019, 02:29:19 PM
OK, Steve waved his "magic wand" over these and converted them.  I just put them in and where I  was getting a CTD (at PHKO) there is none now. But the big black plane that shows in my original pic isn't showing ... could be it is out flying around.  (Almost) bottom line, we may have fixed this one. I'm going to fly with it for a few days and make sure I don't get any more CTD's. If not, I'll send it to Javier and George at PhotoReal Hawaii, I'm sure they will appreciate it.

PS if this works, I'll post a link to the corrected AI planes. (But I'm going to look into that other site to see what is there too ... pretty interesting).

Thank you Steve!!

UPDATE ---------------------------

OK, the big black plane (the one in my pic) just flew over ... at least I think it did ... it only had lights, no body ... ghost plane? Steve mentioned one, during conversion, didn't have a texture. I know it was the big one because a cessna was trying to land at the same time and the bigger one aborted and it was huge in comparison. So does anybody recognize the big black airplane? It should be one of those on the attached pic. I'll then go in and see if I can pull it out, or perhaps find it on that other site that was mentioned.


Doug
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: jeff3163 on July 05, 2019, 04:15:48 PM
The plane in your pic above, with no wheels is the AI Lockheed C-141B Starlifter.  Model and Paintkit by Henry Tomkiewicz.  It is in the Hawaiian Airports Part 2 package.   ;)  There is a light and dark gray variation.   8)

The "AI Lockheed C-141B.air" file is dated 9/19/2001.   :P
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 05, 2019, 04:46:06 PM
Thank you Jeff.  Ok I'll focus on that one. When I put the AI planes in, I get CTD's all over the place. Steve and I worked on the 717 but that obviously wasn't the problem. Still playing with it. Going to fly with none and make sure all ok, then add one at a time ... could take a couple of days.
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: ualani on July 05, 2019, 05:15:30 PM
Have to register to read it and their registration process is a bit over the top with all of the questions you have to answer. No thanks for just a one time access.

Steve
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: nbrich1 on July 05, 2019, 05:31:49 PM
The ai model files have to be fsx native for P3Dv4x. Any that are fs9/fs98 model files will ctd in P3Dv4x.. I don't know how to convert them so simply removed all of the planes out, that is all that don't have fsx model files. That cures the ctd. Just no ai traffic if one uses it.

N
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: rgerdes on July 05, 2019, 06:15:37 PM
Conversion for the HTAI C-141B and link to file

https://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index.php?topic=25086.msg249707#msg249707
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: ualani on July 06, 2019, 08:33:42 AM
Doug,
Be sure to let me know which one causes the CTD when you find it.

By the way, some of those models were really old and made years ago.

Steve
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 06, 2019, 09:13:06 AM
I've been in contact with Javier (PhotoReal Hawaii) and brought him up to date with what we have found and discovered so far. I invited him to join this thread. I suggested he "pull" the download for the AI Traffic part of George's Hawaiian Airports package as the models are incompatible with V3 and V4. 

The "no landing gear" was only an indicator. The problem is old FS9 AI Models that cause P3D V3 and V4 to Crash to Desktop (CTD) ... you'll see a "kernel dll" error with not much explanation. It is repeatable and the "indicator" this is the problem is when you are looking in a certain direction, the CTD happens. It will not happen until your view shifts to the particular direction. And you can repeat this. 

The problem is unfortunately based on time. These models are moving around, so it acts like an intermittent.  You can be in the same position an hour later, and the CTD won't happen ... that's because the errant AI Model is no longer in that previous direction.  So it is tricky to "find" the errant AI model.

Steve has done the "conversion" on the models, but there is still a problem. If you get this CTD, the problem is NOT Hawaii PhotoReal ... just take out the two sets of simobjects that you put in for the Hawaiian Airports ... that eliminates the problem. You can also turn your "traffic" slider to "off" and that stops the problem (but it also stops all AI traffic).

Bottom Line ... there is NOTHING WRONG with Hawaii PhotoReal ... it is one of the most beautiful packages I've ever seen on my sim. For the amount of detail, the frame rates are great, and it "IS" Hawaii ... I've been there, that's what it looks like!  For now, if you are going to get this package, install it but DO NOT install the Hawaiian Airport Traffic folders and files.

The scenery for the Hawaiian Airports is excellent ... better then FTX (I've disabled all of those airports). You can turn the FTX airports off for Hawaii by going into ORBX/Global/FTX Airports and changing the .bgl extension to .off.  You will want to do that for every file with these ICAO codes:

PHNY - Lanai City
PHHN ... Hana
PHBK - Barking Sands
PHKO - Kona
PHLI - Lihue
PHDH - Dillingham
PHMU - Wiamea_Kohala
JHL - (Lahaina) Kapalua
PHJR - John Roberts
PHMK - Molokai

That will give you the Hawaiian Airports (excellent!), without FTX interfering with them.

But for now, do not install the Air Traffic bgls or the SimObjects bgls that come with the Hawaiian Airports package if you have V3 and V4. (I'm betting FSX will have a problem with the FS9 AI models we saw).  We'll work on the problem from here and see if we can solve it.

Doug

PS Right now I'm working on this the "old fashioned way". I am putting in 2 models at a time and positioning at different airports, then doing a 360 sweep with the view. But again, this also depends on "time" and whether or not the errant model is actually "there" when I'm checking for it. Hopefully, I can find the problem model(s). As you can imagine, this is going to take some time. I'll keep this thread posted with updates.
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: jeff3163 on July 06, 2019, 09:28:52 AM
Have to register to read it and their registration process is a bit over the top with all of the questions you have to answer. No thanks for just a one time access.

Steve

     Yes, I agree.  Four or five questions about how many engines does "X" type of jet have.  And that is after filling out the 6-letter pictograph.  Also a code for SanFrancisco.  SFO, with no "K".  What a challenge.  I had to use google.  (the 727 has 3 engines).

     I did the deed, and once all questions were correctly answered, I sent it for review.  An email would let me know the results ... soon.

  ( ... watched some youtube videos while waiting ... )

     I've been accepted.  Yay!!  Now I can view their forum pages ... finally.   :P

[time passes] :o
... and now it's the next morning, and I still haven't gone there.   :P
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 06, 2019, 10:32:06 AM
Misc SimObjects Group ... I just had a CTD at PHKO (start there, then swing the view) when you point toward the ga parking area, you get CTD. So there is something wrong in that group for sure. ... (as I discover more, I'll post in this thread post). - Doug
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: ualani on July 06, 2019, 11:12:59 AM
Just a note: FSX should have no problem with handling FS9 AI models. The problems related to FS9 stuff started somewhere during the evolution of P3D. P3D also, unfortunately, broke conditional objects, such those that allowed users to tune to a certain radio frequency in order to open hangar doors.

Steve
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 06, 2019, 11:14:15 AM
OK, that explains something ... George (who made the ai traffic) only has FSX, so he wouldn't see the problem.
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on July 06, 2019, 01:33:21 PM
All of the "Aircraft" group are working ... no CTD yet.
Put in the first 6 so far for the "Misc" group ... now we have landing gear/wheels
... more to do.

Update: added each MISC group plane ... they are all in, and I just flew all around the big island (quickly) in an F35 ... going close to the airports that are affected by the ai traffic. No problems. Going to now fly with the Twotter and see if all stays the same.  (Steve may have fixed all of this).

Update: flew from Maui to Oahu (Dillingham) with no problems (so far).
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Bradallen43 on July 08, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
How's the search going in Hawaii Doug. Any further CTD's?
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: AveMetal on July 10, 2019, 01:04:27 PM
Mahalo to this great community!  ;D

I´m the developer of the Hawaii photoreal scenery, I´ve been in contact with Doug for a while and he informed me about this problem.

I just include and share George´s airports (including the AI and flight plans) with his permission, so I´d like to ask yours to use the updated models for the next release that I´m planing, of course I would credit the author.

For the next update the main features are that I will include an automatic installer and full autogen, with custom buildings textures for this area...

Aloha! 8)
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Bradallen43 on July 10, 2019, 06:36:17 PM
Hello!! Is this Javier?

Thanks for stopping by in our forums to make yourself known! Welcome to “Misty’s Place”!
Myself, Doug and several others here at RTMM are users of the Flight Sim Jewels Hawaii Photoreal scenery and George Keogh’s Hawaiian airports that go along so well with that scenery.

Steve Weinkamer is one of our scientists who worked on the model conversions that, from some of our tests, seems to have taken care of the Crash to Desktop inside Prepar3D v4 using old FS9 models. Doug is still seeing a random CTD but so far, I’m not. I wasn’t seeing any wheels before in several models and now I am!

Please stay in touch here so we can pass on information on the continuing testing with the updated models to make sure they’re ready for inclusion in the upcoming Hawaii Photoreal updates you’re planning.

Doug and I did some scenery enhancements for the Hawaii Photoreal software and right now, Doug is working on some updates to his locations. You can have a look here:
https://return.mistymoorings.com/mistys/#hawaii

Thank you once again for coming by Misty’s Place and we hope you’ll stop by again when you get a chance.

Brad

Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: AveMetal on August 14, 2019, 10:06:55 AM
yesss, I am Javier  ;D I´ve included the fix in the last update where I also include a new autogen with more vegetation types and buildings. I guess the fix works fine, so far I haven't received any more information about CTD.

All the details of the update are in the hawaii-photoreal website news. I hope you enjoy this and the new version that is going to come  ;)

Cheers!
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Bradallen43 on August 14, 2019, 10:14:54 AM
Javier,

That's awesome news. I love flying around your scenery areas when its too nasty in Alaska! And thank you for the credits inside the new update for Steve and our team. Much appreciated.

Brad
Title: Re: AI Aircraft - No landing gear/wheels
Post by: Doug on August 14, 2019, 02:04:23 PM
Javier ... welcome to RTMM!!!  Glad to have you drop by. Your scenery packages are important to many of us. Right now, with the converted models Steve has given us, I'm having no CTD's at all. I hope this also solves a problem for you.  Thank you for dropping by.

Doug