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Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D) => General Discussion => Topic started by: kaha on April 12, 2019, 06:20:02 AM

Title: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 12, 2019, 06:20:02 AM
I have an issue with wakes both from ships and float planes. Wakes are striped, please see attached screen shots. I already did a post on Avsim, but no one could help. Maybe any of you has seen this and can advice?

Thx,
Karl
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: Doug on April 12, 2019, 08:38:55 AM
Those are from the wave swells on the water.  To keep wakes on the wave swells with no breaks ...
In Aircraft.cfg under "Contact Points" add this:
always_use_avg_surface=1

Doug
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 12, 2019, 08:42:42 AM
Thx!

So I have to add this for all AI ships?
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: dexthom on April 12, 2019, 09:06:41 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 12, 2019, 09:10:37 AM
Ok, looks a bit better, but the stripes are still there. Will also try it for ships.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 12, 2019, 09:44:41 AM
For the ships it didn't change anything. Here is an example: Ship VEH_water_tanker01_sm

For the float plane it's no problem, I don't see it from the cockpit anyway.

Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: Doug on April 12, 2019, 09:48:03 AM
Great pictures. I used your first ones and added this subject to the RTMM FAQ area under "W". So this should help other people too.

Doug
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: dexthom on April 12, 2019, 12:08:17 PM
I assume you are running P3Dv4.5 and if you just upgraded the client and content, all of the default AI vessels
have been replaced.  That means the Sim.cfg has gone to default and the statement in the sim.cfg has to be
replaced in each of the default vessels.  The line in the [Contact Points] always_use_avg_surface=1 is indeed
missing in the sim config of the default vessels.  Start your edit!
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 12, 2019, 12:18:50 PM
Dexter, I did not upgrade, still on 4.4.

I'm not sure what introduced this issue, I have it since ~3 months. I ruled out PTA and Envtex. Unchecking Bathymetrie in Options also does not help. It's with P3D default ships, Nielsens AI ships, TFX and RTMM ships and float planes (in fact all wakes show the issue).

For the test with the container ship I explicitely changed that sim. cfg of that ship, to no avail.

Karl
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: dexthom on April 12, 2019, 01:26:02 PM
When you upgraded to 4.4, did you replace the content?  Please post the sim.cfg of one of the offending vessels.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 12, 2019, 03:21:54 PM
I did not upgrade, I went from V3 to V4.4 with a clean install in October 2017. I changed hardware two months ago and again did a clean install of 4.4.

The sim.cfg is from ship VEH_water_tanker01_sm

The aircraft.cfg is from Carenado C185F Amphib

The line always_use_avg_surface=1 was added to the .cfg files by me today.

Thx,
Karl


Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: dexthom on April 13, 2019, 09:18:18 AM
Looking at your photos, and since you have the appropriate entry in the config file, it looks like the wakes are turning off and on for some reason.  I am attaching a zip file that contains the McCoy wakes.  They can be used for aircraft and vessels.  Unzip to your Effects folder and try one of those.  Please let me know how they work.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 13, 2019, 09:38:12 AM
Thank you Dexter, I'm just hooked in a C-47, will give it a try a.s.a.p.

Karl
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 13, 2019, 10:51:41 AM
I tested the new wakes. Only two of them showed up, barely visible. The effect in the attached screenshot is fx_McCoy_Water_Max. Hard to judge if the issue is there or not.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: dexthom on April 13, 2019, 04:02:29 PM
The last shot is too dark and I can't tell if there is a wake.  I think that there is something else going on with
settings.  I am running version 4.5 and have no wake problems.  Rod is our effects guru perhaps he can climb
in here with some ideas.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 13, 2019, 04:36:35 PM
I adjusted the contrast.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: dexthom on April 13, 2019, 04:54:26 PM
I can see something there.  Try another shot.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: rgerdes on April 13, 2019, 05:15:20 PM
Hi Dex,
Running 4.5 also and I'm seeing the stripped wakes too - but as near as I can tell only with the Tongass boats;Leconte, Matanuska, Anacapa, and the fishing boats.
Maybe also the Marignan, the one used at Halibut cove.
Looks to me after watching them they are spawing in chunks thus the stripped effect
Hope this helps,
Bob
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 13, 2019, 05:36:56 PM
Bob, as you are seeing the stripes also for Tongass boats: When I installed v4. 4 I also installed Tongass and copied all Tongass effects into the P3D effects folder.

Karl
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: dexthom on April 13, 2019, 07:31:35 PM
I think that we have a system glitch related to the view angle.  I can reproduce the ladder effect by
taking views at different angles.  Here's a link to zip file that has shots of several angles.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sia4mqwxopaozrx/Wake_Study.zip?dl=0

Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: rgerdes on April 13, 2019, 08:19:30 PM
It's more pronounced from a distance - don't know if it was there in v4.4 or not. I didn't notice it until kaha pointed it out but I was already running 4.5
If I get curious maybe I'll reload the 4.4 client - doesn't take too long...
Bob
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 14, 2019, 05:30:24 AM
The effect fx_wake_coastguard.fx I'm testing with uses those 2 .bmp files:

fx_wake_1.bmp
fx_wake_2.bmp

When I open them in Photoshop CC 2019 they look corrupted. Can someone with correct wakes check those files please?
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: Dieter on April 14, 2019, 05:44:18 AM
Attached
See if it helps.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 14, 2019, 06:07:25 AM
Thank you. But: same issue with your BMPs.

Karl
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: Dieter on April 14, 2019, 07:19:42 AM
The files are correct!
Try to watch them in another viewer (like IrFanView)
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: ualani on April 14, 2019, 11:03:55 AM
The bmp's aren't corrupt. Not every viewer can properly display certain bmp's.

Steve
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: av8erjm on April 14, 2019, 11:26:13 AM
Not a expert by any means, but could it be how a graphic card is reading the FX file or Texture file
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: stiletto2 on April 14, 2019, 04:04:33 PM
Don't think the problem is a graphics card or effects textures.   I have not seen the striped wakes so am not sure what is causing that.   It is important to mention what your water setting is since effects react differently to Ultra versus High water setting. 

Can the OP narrow down to one boat that Tongass creates where the wake is striped (so we only need Tongass to see it) and pick a time (UTC) and place where it is visible so that it can be looked at by all to see what the wake looks like to us?


Rod
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: dexthom on April 14, 2019, 04:16:04 PM
I have spent a good part of the day in Puget Sound looking at numerous vessels underway.  I saw Larry's ferries, numerous variations of Henrik's and some of the RTMM also.  I was in VR and did not see one anomoly in the wakes that I observed.  Before i headed that way I started at Sitka and followed the Anacapa Coast Guard vessel from port.  I did see the ladder effect from some angels.  I looked at my special effects settings and they are at max.  I am running ver 4.5 with an EVGA RTX2080 SC Gaming card.  This paroblem is above
my pay grade. 
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 14, 2019, 05:58:56 PM
Spawn at Misty's Place on April 9th 2019, 19.50 Zulu. Take off and head towards Annette Island. You will soon see the RTMM ship VEH_water_tanker01_sm. Screenshot attached.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: rgerdes on April 14, 2019, 06:43:43 PM
I'm only seeing it with tongass boats - have tried several different wake effects files with the Leconte and all produce the stripped wake in p3d 4.5
I 'm beginning to suspect it has something to do with the model files for those older boats.
I updated the anacapa and leconte with model convertor x to p3d4.4 and still get the stripped wake though - so may be something in how it is set up to produce wakes - way above my pay grade.
Bob
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 14, 2019, 06:48:46 PM
I'm only seeing it with tongass boats - .....
.....I updated the anacapa and leconte with model convertor x to p3d4.4 and still get the stripped wake though .....
Bob

And it also happens with float planes (on my rig at least).

Anyway, I will have to live with it until my next clean install...  that will probably not happen before P3D V5 arrives.

Karl
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: stiletto2 on April 14, 2019, 07:29:09 PM
Kaha,

Thanks for posting a pic.  I don't see the same problem.  That model  is a sim.cfg model .   You did not mention it but I will assume for a second the you are running ultra water.   Are you using any addons that affect the water like Accu-feel?  Also, can you check that same VEH_water_tanker01_sm model wake to see if it looks the same with the water set to high instead of ultra?

On the AI plane striped wakes that you mention....do you have The Western Chugach Part 2 RTMM Scenery installed?  I know those models and effects the best.   I would like to see if you see the same striped wakes with the AI Float planes that takes off (using  Spring on season switcher) from JLA dock at 1800 UTC. 

rgerdes,

FYI, I wouldn't recommend using MCX to convert RTMM/TFX models to P3Dv4.4 code since RTMM is standardized on FSX coded models which have been proven to work correctly with the effects in all FSX and P3D versions.  Since the entire offering of RTMM is based on using FSX coded models, mixing in models that are coded for P3Dv4.4 could ultimately cause unpredictable results while using RTMM Scenery.

Rod 

Rod

         
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: rgerdes on April 14, 2019, 07:42:51 PM
Thanks Rod
Duly noted
Bob
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 14, 2019, 07:51:33 PM
Rod, Water settings do not influence the stripes in the wakes. Also switching bathymetrie to off does not help. And I do not have any addons that could influence the water, except PTA and Envtex. But I did a test with PTA and Envtex deactivated.

I will do a takeoff in the Western Chugach Part 2 scene and will let you know.

Thx,
Karl

Edit:noticed you want to see an AI plane take off.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: stiletto2 on April 14, 2019, 08:20:47 PM
Ok, Karl.  Let me know what happens at TWC - Part 2.

Rod
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: Dieter on April 15, 2019, 03:54:04 AM
Inspired by the lively discussion, I started looking for ships with possible striped waves.
What I have found so far:
- PAKT ferry (Project_R-144), time 19:15 UTC
Ok, the model is very old, but is displayed well regardless.

[contact_points]
always_use_avg_surface = 1

is entered.

Result: see attached screenshot
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 15, 2019, 03:55:25 AM
Here we are, Rod. Two screenshots, one leaving the dock and the 2nd just after take off.

Karl
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: Dieter on April 15, 2019, 04:21:37 AM
BTW, I just checked Karl's posting #30 concerning "ship VEH_water_tanker01_sm".
I don't have the "ladder" on this one.

P.S.

I think the problem is not just because of the missing entry. (always_use_avg_surface = 1)
Many of Henrik Nielson's ships (package worldwide) do not have this entry, and yet these ships  do not show that problem
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: kaha on April 15, 2019, 04:37:12 AM
....
Many of Henrik Nielson's ships (package worldwide) do not have this entry, and yet these ships  do not show that problem

Here also Nielsens ships show the problem. All ships and all float planes show it.

Karl
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: Dieter on April 15, 2019, 04:58:06 AM
I checked floatplane takeoffs at JLA1 (Western Chugach Part 2 RTMM Scenery):
- no problems with the wakes!
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: stiletto2 on April 15, 2019, 10:22:59 AM
Thanks, Kaha.  I can see that neither Dieter or I have the stripes.  I wanted to check that float plane wake because it is a different kind of config than the original pic.

Thanks, Dieter for the find of the Ferry.   It produces a striped wake for me to.  I will now do some research to see what causes that striped wake and maybe it will help figure out kaha's problem. 

Stay tuned.

Rod
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: ualani on April 15, 2019, 11:19:19 AM
Emitter properties.
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: stiletto2 on April 15, 2019, 11:39:30 AM
Steve, 

Any more thoughts on emitter properties????

All,

I can say that the ferry wake stripes show up when the ground decal parameter is active.   Have to look at more things.   The ground decal parameter is, of course,  active on most wakes so not sure why the stripes on the ferry yet.

Rod
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: ualani on April 15, 2019, 02:10:33 PM
Don't have ground decal parameter in FSX effects, so I can't really help much nor trouble shoot the P3D issue. Try messing with the emmitter values using within the P3D effects xml.

Steve
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: stiletto2 on April 15, 2019, 04:47:12 PM
Hi Steve,

Yes, have played with the emitter rates etc.  So far no real effect.  I will work on it more tomorrow.

Rod
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: stiletto2 on April 17, 2019, 08:45:36 PM
Unfortunately, after experimenting with many things, I cannot explain why all of kaha's wakes have lines in them.  It doesn't happen on my system or many others so it very well may be some type of local problem due to the current installation of P3Dv4 on Kaha's system.  But, that is just a guess.  As kaha said, he will probably just have to wait until sometime in the future when he does a full reinstall of P3DvX.

Rod
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: Dieter on April 27, 2019, 03:39:57 AM
Rod,

did you had some time to tinker with or respectively find a solution for striped wake of the
- PAKT ferry (Project_R-144) ?
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: stiletto2 on April 29, 2019, 04:34:42 PM
Hi Dieter,

Not exactly....  Interestingly enough, if you comment out the "wake = " line, the R 144 still leaves a very small wake that has no stripes on my system.   You can also make the stripes disappear by commenting out the Ground Decal command in [Particle.0] section but that can cause some dispersed wake effect rising slightly above the water depending on your system.   Feel free to try either.

Rod
Title: Re: Striped wakes
Post by: dexthom on April 29, 2019, 06:23:17 PM
I have been doing some experiments.

My observations:

1. The Google Earth tracks are not affected so it's related to vessels using the aircraft method using AF2
    files with runways and apron paths.

2.  I have not seen them in places other than the Tongass waters.

I will try to convert some of the AF2 files to ADE to see if that is a solution.

EDIT:  I have converted some of the AF2s to ADE and the result was no change in the wake of the
Coast Guard vessel.  I have the same vessel running at KACK with no wake problem.