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Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D) => Misty Flying Club and Multi Player => Topic started by: doksas on August 22, 2018, 08:17:55 AM

Title: About landing
Post by: doksas on August 22, 2018, 08:17:55 AM
One question please,
Tour mfc0011 required 2 or 3 landings, in my Pirep MFC20591  i make first landing rate -0.77 fpm but this not registered on TopPilot score. Only second landing is valid or? Kind regards.


   
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: nbrich1 on August 22, 2018, 09:59:15 AM
The pirep log records all landings within the single flight (So each stop-over or mid-landing and it's landing rate and location are recorded). The logbook chart or table in MFC Cigar Box contains all the landing in a flight BUT only the last landing and it's landing rate is used for the TOP Pilot Calculation.

Why?   Well in the past most flights have been from A to Z. From Departure location to Destination location.. BUT now we have the ACARS development to include many stop-overs within a single flight leg. (This has only been a year or so where we can capture ALL of the landings and continue flying in a single flight leg and log all of it - then at destination then the stop Flight - with the final landing is the trigger to close off the flight).

That is a great feature because it allows the creation of more complex flights with stop-overs etc..  but the Top Pilot module is not developed to that point yet where it can see all of the landings within a single flight leg to determine best landing rate so for now the last landing rate within a flight leg is used.
So make your last landing in a flight leg your best landing cause your that landing is the one that is used in the Top Pilot calculation.
======================================================

Now the your log/pirep is in tact so we and yourself can go through the log and see every action and landing rates that took place in your flight.

Going a bit farther on the pireps itself: you can look at your own log/pirep as we do.

In Cigar Box Logbook or on the MFC Site Under Pilot Center Tab = View my Pireps: One can see all the operations of the airplane: GPS Use/Autopilot engaged/Disengaged - flap use, landing rate/pitch, flap use etc etc even see Cigar Box Recovery use: the in-flight saves as well as the in-flight loads of the flight pirep).

Now at MFC when we are approving the only real restriction we are using is that ALL landings in a pirep must be -600fpm or under -(or comment to help a pilot fly/land better) but again as far as landings- it is only the last landing rate in a flight leg is used in the Top Pilot Calculation for best landing rate.

Hope this helps.

Norm
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: doksas on August 22, 2018, 10:06:24 AM
So only last landing in flight is recorded for TopPilot score.
Ok Norm thanks for answer. 🍻
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: nbrich1 on August 22, 2018, 10:30:27 AM
So only last landing in flight is recorded for TopPilot score.
Ok Norm thanks for answer. 🍻


(PS: Yesterday you got a -7fpm landing rate - Congratulations.)

So far this month:

Top Pilot for August 2018 (Landing Rates)

Jeff Greene - MFC0017    -2 ft/min
Igor Doksas - MFC0059    -7 ft/min
Darb Nella - MFC0043    -9 ft/min
Jim Magin - MFC0054           -18 ft/min
Steve Stevens - MFC0020    -21 ft/min


Great job on those landings guys.

Norm
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: doksas on August 22, 2018, 01:47:28 PM
Huh, problem is my bad english and sorry for this Norm.
I know for this landing -7 ft/min but i have better lading with -0.77 ft/min in
 my Pirep MFC20591   PAWG   63A   DHC2 BEAVERA (N001MM-AM)   00.32.25   2018/08/21 and i ask for this :)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/4f8gh3tc1/Untitled.png)
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: nbrich1 on August 22, 2018, 02:51:44 PM
Bad english no problem Igor.  Yes -0.77fpm shows on your pirep- which is just under -1.0 lol. Slightly lower That landing was the stop-over landing and not the final destination landing which Top Pilot uses as previously explained.  A barely touch landing.

Now landing rates are a funny thing, in SIMMING we have Top Pilot charts which record the 5 lightest landing in the flight legs for each month but in reality those landing rates are way too soft for landing an aircraft - they are ok for a landing hover helicopter in the real world but not for a fixed wind airplane that is trying to land at it's ideal landing speed.

A fixed wing requires some -300fpm or under down force to stick the ground - depending on weather and wind velocity and type of runway surface: in reality a landing rate between -75fpm to  -250fpm. That is the ideal range for tolerable landing rate forces which hold an airplane down on the runway surface. Above -600fpm forces can be increasingly damaging forces the higher the landing fpm but conversely any lighter than -75 and lower fpm landings allows the plane to softly touchdown but may not have sufficient downward forces hold the aircraft down on the runway surface (Again this woud be dependent on weather conditions and runway surface texture). All to say that a great landing rate next to 0 in simming is not ideal or practicable in real life flying or in this case landing..lol.). Trivia for the day.
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: doksas on August 22, 2018, 08:08:42 PM
Yes Norm, i know, commercial pilot make ideal landing about 150-250 fpm, and everything is clear about landing rate of course,
 but i see in top pilot charts -2 fpm etc and not see my landing -0.77 fpm.
Now, this your words explains everything I wanted to ask from the beginning:
"That landing was the stop-over landing and not the final destination landing which Top Pilot uses"

So, only final destination landing use in Top Pilot charts, now is everything perfect clear :)

Thanks Norm!
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: jeff3163 on August 23, 2018, 08:20:24 AM
My -2 landing was a final destination landing.   ;)
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: MFC0001 on August 23, 2018, 06:03:30 PM
I think that the landing rates are grossly out of touch if you are trying to relate to the real world.  We were taught in flight training that you had to have positive contact with the ground.....landing of less than -50 isn't in that category......and if it is windy, some more like -100 is better.  A little gust will likely blow you to the side if not off the runway if you are trying to land at -5.  At the other end, general aviation landing gears are sturdy....up to a point, and most would agree that -400 is about the limit for landings without shortening the life of the undercarriage.  Unfortunately for most folks, flight simulation is a game...something to be enjoyed and very little emphasis on actually operating an airplane.  For those into simulation, they will fly as you would in real life....For me, a Simulation of Bush Flying means no autopilot and no gps.....I navigate by VOR and NDB when available, otherwise it is time, speed and distance....just as I learned in flight school.  But the good news is that we are a low key flying club....so you do what you want to..... and you should have fun doing it.  Just please don't think that a -1 landing is good......

Henry
Misty Moorings Team
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: jeff3163 on August 23, 2018, 08:25:39 PM
It's just a kacars game for me.  I am not a real pilot, and I don't try to be one.  It's fun to see how low I can get it, like the uphill landings in the positive numbers.  But it is just a "game" for me.  I could turn out -100's if that was my aim.  No top pilot list for getting -100 though.   :P
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: doksas on August 23, 2018, 10:10:50 PM
Thanks Henry for flight lesson, I am not a real pilot but now i go for landing rate cca 100fpm.
This -2 etc landing is just for fun :)
 PS. Jeff i am moral winner with my -0.77 fpm :P 
I wish you smooth flight, Cheers :)
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: jeff3163 on August 23, 2018, 10:27:43 PM
Thanks Henry for flight lesson, I am not a real pilot but now i go for landing rate cca 100fpm.
This -2 etc landing is just for fun :)
 PS. Jeff i am moral winner with my -0.77 fpm :P 
I wish you smooth flight, Cheers :)

 8)  Yes, that was a very light touch indeed.  You win.   8)
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: doksas on August 23, 2018, 10:39:08 PM
:) But you are the official winner, congrats :)
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: doksas on August 26, 2018, 04:41:36 PM
Can not be better ( for top scores off corse ), but again not destination landing :)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/zabg6v7j5/Untitled.png)
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: jeff3163 on August 26, 2018, 06:40:29 PM
... unless your in the positive numbers.  ;)

(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/jeff3163/MOON/Flight%20Simulator%20X%20Files/2018/LandingRate_159.png~original)

     These ARE destination landings.   :D
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: doksas on August 26, 2018, 08:39:51 PM
lol  :)))
Yeah, i often fly in Lukla or Courchevel with DHC6 where landing must be with positive numbers :)

What is better, less or more positive ?

(https://s22.postimg.cc/iclmcqaep/image.png)  destination landing
(https://s22.postimg.cc/5l7g69in5/Untitled.png) stop landing
(https://s22.postimg.cc/awmcqypa9/image.png) destination landing

I'm going to bed good night ;)
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: nbrich1 on September 03, 2018, 02:04:30 PM
Less is more.. er' I mean Less is better. Since most landings are performed with a downward force the landing rate should have a negative value.

If your landing on an uphill slope and get a positive landing rate (+).. less is still best!. You have a slight upward landing force.   (With Zero (0) being the median between the negative and the positive.) 
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: BBQSteve on September 04, 2018, 08:48:46 AM
Oh cont-rare. on the positive side more is better.

-300        -200        -100        0         100       200       300
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: nbrich1 on September 04, 2018, 06:06:09 PM
lol Steve.. Indeed at times it is better to have more than less: so in that regard positive might be much better than negative. lol.. Now unless you go to the Dr. and you're found positive for something bad rather than being confirmed negative for that something that you didn't want. But then Dr. Phil says it is better to be positive than to be negative. All of this is totally confusing. Signed: Being Silly and Totally Confusing.
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: av8erjm on September 04, 2018, 08:39:44 PM
Thinking about whether more is better or not reminded me discussing the merits of more 


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=getting+more++with+geico+belt+buckle&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=1ba13d16bca642d98bea4b6483674b4c&sp=-1&ghc=1&pq=getting+more+with+geic&sc=0-22&qs=n&sk=&cvid=1ba13d16bca642d98bea4b6483674b4c&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dgetting%2bmore%2b%2bwith%2bgeico%2bbelt%2bbuckle%26form%3dPRUSEN%26mkt%3den-us%26httpsmsn%3d1%26refig%3d1ba13d16bca642d98bea4b6483674b4c%26sp%3d-1%26ghc%3d1%26pq%3dgetting%2bmore%2bwith%2bgeic%26sc%3d0-22%26qs%3dn%26sk%3d%26cvid%3d1ba13d16bca642d98bea4b6483674b4c&view=detail&mmscn=vwrc&mid=456CCF3B250CF7F28035456CCF3B250CF7F28035&FORM=WRVORC
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: doksas on September 04, 2018, 09:58:40 PM
Boys, i just kidding with Jeff, relax :)
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: jeff3163 on September 05, 2018, 12:29:58 AM
Boys, i just kidding with Jeff, relax :)

 8)
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: MFC0001 on September 05, 2018, 01:30:40 PM
With all this discussion about landings, the thought came to me that landing is the only thing that most pilots do that is not automated.  Now I know that technology marches forward, and one of the problems in the flying business is that there are two few pilots....why, it's boring, and with less to do in the cockpit, the pilots aren't paid very much, endure physical requirements and a mandatory retirement. 

Some airlines now require pilots to let the airplane auto land. 

Now I learned to fly in the mid 70's and to this day fly the same way.  In my view, flight planning, hand flying, and landing is the lure of flight.  My most enjoyable time in the cockpit was flying a sailplane.  This requires pilot skills, skills that are getting rusty for all pilots who fly for a living.  In a simulator, I can't imagine using GPS or Autopilot....if the simulator could auto land, you could set up a flight, push the start button and go out and mow the lawn and come back just in time to taxi to the gate.

Enjoy your next flight.

Henry
Misty Moorings Team
Title: Re: About landing
Post by: doksas on September 05, 2018, 07:40:28 PM
I try few time auto land ( just to see how this work ) with PMDG triple 7 and 747, but in 99,9% flights i disconnect autopilot and land with hand.
But, yes i like to use autopilot especially on long flight. Henry, with respect to your long-standing path as real pilot, today is modern era and gps you find from 50 bucks.
IE When driving car in big unknown city how to navigate without gps? Stop every 2 minutes and ask people? Look on map and crash? Realistically, this is losing the time,
 and time is money.
BUT, I still want to learn flying through old school :) and thanks for every tips.