Misty Moorings Forums
Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D/MSFS2020) => From Here to There - Missions, Trip Tics and VA => Topic started by: Doug on September 12, 2016, 10:44:46 AM
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The GoTo Table
- Purpose: To make finding locations and information on them easier for the RTMM Area.
- Process: Use the Search find what you are looking for, use the "Number of Entries" to limit the number displayed and Click on any column head to "sort" the ascending or descending order.
- Payoff: All information on RTMM area locations will be sorted and displayed for you instantly helping you choose a flight or choose which locations you may want to download.
Selection: The RTMM user can now know what locations area available for you, you can "search" for the ORBX area you have purchased (SAK, PFJ, PNW) and only those locations will be brought up by the table. (Adjust number of entries to see the whole list). You can then sort them by name, or by "NM" (nautical miles, length of flight) to help you select the locations you may wish to download.
Color Coding: The listings are color coded to help you determine if the location is already in your computer (no color), is an individual download from the scenery page (Green) or part of a Group... a single download that offers multiple locations (Red).
Location Information: After each location name, the type of landing zone is indicated. Also, if the location is an airport, the ICAO code is indicated. (If you want all the flights in and out of Misty's Place, you can search either for "Misty's Place" or "PF20." The information also tells you if a landing zones water landing is frozen in the winter (W*). There is also a rough "EASE" guide ... if a flight plan is easy, it is rated 1-2, the most difficult are rated 9-10. The "length" of the flight is also listed in nautical miles.
Flight Plans and Maps: Each location has a "map" link. (There are over 525 maps). So you can look at the flight plan before you decide to download it. All of the flight plans that are indicated on the GoTo table are in the "RTMM Flight Plans.zip" folder that can be downloaded from the Here2There page: (HERE (http://return.mistymoorings.com/here_to_there/#plans)). There is a "readme" in the "RTMM Flight Plans.zip" folder that tells you where to put the flight plans and how to use them.
Instructions and Table Legend: At the top of the table are two "button bar" links to the Instructions for using the table and to the table's "legend." It is suggested you get totally familiar with the information in both of these as it will help you get the best usage of the GoTo Table.
Summary: We will be continually adding the new locations to the GoTo table as they are developed. Also, it is set up so we can "improve" it as needs arise. We are always looking for "location orphans" (locations that are listed somewhere in RTMM, but not represented by the table) and will be adding those as/if we find them. If you have questions on the table, have a suggestion for making it better, or if you see information missing, let us know in this forum thread and we will change/correct it.
We would also be interested in how YOU are using the table and your experiences. Please share them with us.
Doug/RTMM
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Quote - "We would also be interested in how YOU are using the table and your experiences. Please share them with us."
As a new user to RTMM in just the past few days, the GoTo table has made finding and picking a flight to fly incredibly easier. I've downloaded and installed numerous RTMM scenery already, including all of the "packages" (CIRP, SIRP, Medical Facilities, Alaska Power Project). While doing all of that, I became aware of how difficult it would be to find a flight I would want to do (or for that matter, where the heck the flight would be in the vast scenery area RTMM covers to begin with). I had flights plans in one folder, maps in another, descriptions of the flights somewhere else...I would have to jump around on my computer to "compare" things about a flight to see if I wanted to do it.
The new GoTo now makes it incredibly easy. Pick a location, get a list of all flights for that location, see a map for a selected flight, see what RTMM download I need for the flight, look at the airplane type it accommodates (wheel/float/heli/etc), flight distance, etc. It's all in one very convenient searchable location now.
Kudos to the developers. The GoTo makes the RTMM experience so much better now, especially for an RTMM "newbie" unfamiliar with all the locations and options that are available.
EDIT: One suggestion. It initially confused the heck outta me between the "Here2There" and the (new) "GoTo" sections, and the "Autoroutes" section. Seeing as there were THREE different sections that "seemed" like they were dealing with flight plans, I wasn't sure what the differences between them were. That could still be confusing to newbies. When I go to the "Here2There" page now, the "GoTo" is listed as a separate "thing" in the brown buttons area at the top. Then there is also the "Autoroutes" section button, which says it is the complete download of all RTMM flightplans (that will work in the GPS). My head was spinning. :o It might be a good idea to put a BRIEF description of the DIFFERENCES between the 3 things (Here2There, Autoroutes, and GoTo) at the TOP of the page right from the start. Heck, I wasn't sure WHERE I should be getting flight plans from for my first few days here. I actually just saw a forum post that said I DIDN'T need to be keeping any of the flight plans in the individual scenery downloads anymore because they were ALL included in the new RTMM flight plans "master" download zip (the new "GoTo" flightplans download). I think. See...I might STILL be confused. ;D
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OK, take a look now and see if this helps. I got rid of the references to "Autoroutes" which was an older term we were using. I made a GoTo table button at the top and I have renamed that button on the Here2There as RTMM Flight Plans ... then reworded the table a little. I also put a direct download link on the GoTo Table at the bottom with a "zip" button people are used to. It downloads the SAME thing as the button on the Here2There table.
Let me know if this helps. The newbies are my target on this thing, and we MUST get it correct with no confusion for them. Let's keep working on it until it is OK.
Doug
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Yes! Much better. It got rid of the "Autoroutes" button, which was basically the same thing the new RTMM Flightplans download is now (both were "designed" to do the same thing....allow a new user to use autopilot GPS controlled flightplans....but were "called" different things).
As an aside, I was an Instructor in the Air Force for many of my years there. I got an Associates of Applied Science degree from the Community College of the Air Force in Instructional Systems Development (creating "learning" resources, like Lesson Plans, core instructional methodology, course instruction programs, etc). That's why I posted the recommendation. Anything that is basically trying to "teach" something, but is "called" two different things and/or located in multiple places, just results in confusion for the student (in our case, the "newbie" RTMM user).
Looks good now and much less confusing. :D
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Glad to have your sharp (and trained!) eye on board. When you look at how RTMM has developed from a home page and a scenery page, to what we have now it is amazing ... and confusing! We have things for boating too, and all kinds of enhancements ... all these can be "strays". Those of us who work with it all the time know where all these things are, but they are tough to find just coming 'at' the site. Another thing that can help is the SEARCH function up on the top right of each page. It lets "Google" do the work for us. I've actually used it to figure out where we've put things! But an interesting flip side to that is, what if you don't know it's there and therefore don't know to look for it?
I'm looking at any ideas that help us "bring together" things rather than spread them out. The GoTo is a good start on the key area (scenery). There are some magical things one can do with programming these days on a web page. We're going to be looking at more thing like that. Keep your eyes open for us. Really appreciate your input!
Doug
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Will do. In that regard, there is another thing that confused the heck outta me starting out.
If I understand correctly, the goal of the new RTMM Flightplans download is to have a flightplan that is autopilot capable for every scenery in RTMM. The "newbie" user can decide whether to use it in the GPS with the autopilot, and a "purist" pilot who wants to do dead-reckoning just wouldn't load the flightplan into the GPS or use the autopilot. One flightplan works for all users then. But if I understand correctly, you are (or made) changes to some of the original flightplans that came with the sceneries originally during your evaluation of them. And many of the scenery downloads still contain those old flightplans in them yet. So I wasn't sure which flightplans I should keep or not.
Two possible solutions:
1. (This one might be a massive undertaking and could wait until later). Eliminate those "old" flightplans from the scenery downloads they are in. Could be a very time-comsuming thing to do right now. So instead...
2. ADD an "instruction" in the new RTMM Flightplans download PDF file right at the TOP of the PDF that says something like, "These flightplans replace all flightplans included in any sceneries you download. You can delete flightplans included with the scenery downloads after you extract them from the ZIP file. You can disregard any instruction that comes with the scenery download to "save" the flightplan". I'd also put the same "instruction" right at the top of the RTMM section on the Here2There page, so the user would see it there even before they downloaded the RTMM FLightplans ZIP file. That's just to "cover the bases" for those users who don't "RTFM" and will never look at the PDF file anyhow. ;)
Number 2 above would clear up the confusion of "duplicate but different (old)" flightplans for the sceneries a user downloads, and you wouldn't even have to change any of the installation instructions in the downloads (which would be even a bigger undertaking). And it would allow the number 1 option to not have to be done until later (if at all).
The above is based on what I understand about the new RTMM Flightplans download "replacing" older flightplans still included in the scenery downloads (and the instructions still in the scenery downloads to save those "old, outdated" flightplans. What I'm NOT sure about this recommendation is if it would "mess up" anything relating to the flights found on the GoTo page now...the GoTo link button on the Here2There page doesn't let me select it anymore (like the link isn't there right now).
If any of my assumptions are wrong, disregard everything I just said. ;)
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I don't have a problem replacing the "Master File" of flight plans as the occasion warrants. Where my problem arose was when I experimented with 'organizing' them. I tried organizing them by Ranger District at one point, which seemed to make a lot of sense until I realized that if I didn't know what Ranger District the FP was in off the top of my head (which I don't), then I didn't know where my flight was actually originating from...geographically.
So I tried by FAT areas...Tongass, SAK, PFJ, PNW, etc. That got me more in the ballpark but then the Master File changed again. So now I'm just working off of that until I come up with a better way to organize them. Any suggestions on how other folks organize their FP's would be welcome. Haven't tried the new 'GoTo' scheme but I will.
And thanks for all the time you have invested in this project, Doug.
jsapair
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Many of the flight plans on the scenery page are those belonging to the designer/author of the location. So I am hesitating to change any of those, that has to do with artistic license. Some of our designers don't care for the low/slow/between-the-mountains kinds of plans, theirs are more direct. So it has to do with THEIR interpretation of THEIR scenery location.
I have made most of the flight plans on the site, 90% of the USFS cabins are mine, etc. For now, the flight plans to use are those in RTMM Flight Plans.zip. Those are the new ones, and I've personally flown all of them. So the new RTMM Flight Plans.zip should be the "go to" place to get a flight plan. (You can see us migrating in that direction with the Go To table and the RTMM Flight Plans.zip.). But I will have to leave the flight plans at each scenery location as they are. So this can give us multiple flight plans for a single location. I don't want to discourage anyone from using the flight plans that are associated with each scenery location on the scenery page. Using the new system, or using the flight plan associated with the scenery on the scenery page is the user's choice.
I added this to the PDF that comes in the RTMM Flight Plans.zip:
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WELCOME to the RTMM Flight Plans package. This package contains “Flight-Seeing” autoroutes for all of the RTMM locations and USFS Cabin locations. You can find the RTMM Flight Plans.zip in the information section of the GoTo table page or on the Here2There page.
• NOTAM: The flight plans in the RTMM Flight Plan.zip may not be the same as a flight plan you will find at the locations position on the Scenery Page. Those were all created by the author and they must remain as they are. Of course you are free to use either, but understand that they could be different.
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As for organizing the plans, I too was trying to figure out how to do this. The best we can do is to organize them by ORBX area, then sub-sort them by column. Lets say you want all the USFS cabins in ORBX SAK. You do a search for USFS .. all the cabins come up, you sort by Clicking the ORBX header, if you click the header twice, you get a descending sort, putting SAK at the top of the list, but now all the SAK ones will be together. Don't forget that you will have to increase the number of entries to 100, and then there is more than one page...scroll down and you will find the SAK's. (Note also there is a "XX" entry that will show up. This is my "blank" that I use for putting in the next entry we find. It is just a placemarker.) There are many ways to use the new table to sort and organize the plans for you.
Another thing to keep in mind, per the instructions in the pdf ... you should keep these flight plans in their own safe place, I recommend you DO NOT mix them with your other flight plans. This way, when we change them, you can delete the contents of that folder and put in the new data. So if you like one of the older flight plans, you can keep it with the rest of your flight plans. But these would be separate.
My goal is to have EVERY location in RTMM on the Table with a flight plan for each in the RTMM Flight Plans.zip folder. We are close now ... some strays remain.
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Doing a great job on the data table Doug. It sure is helpful seeing excursions in an specific area and POI within those areas. It is very helpful in seeing routes for new tours creation. Am in process of creating another new flight tour at Alaska Adventures.: Exploration into the Pacific Fjords (PFJ)-Owikeno-Kimsquit which is based on your Owikeno flights and POI found in your table. Hope to have it ready for Monday Sept 19, 2016.
Thanks again Doug.
Norm
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Great Norm. Don't forget the little AI Traffic addon included in Owikeeno. There is a ferry boat that runs back and forth up and down the lake, parking exactly at its mooring each time. As you are flying around, it is fun to watch the boats. These's also a good TripTic at the scenery location and route for all locations there if you need it. Looking forward to the next tour! Glad to hear the table helps.
Doug
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Doug,
Good info. Obviously I was still confused about the difference in the RTMM FlightPlans.zip and the individual ones in the scenery package downloads. Those are the kind of things that would confuse a new RTMM user...different flight plans in different downloads on the site for the same location, but they fly the routes differently. Your NOTAM add to the RTMM Flight Plans PDF is what was needed.
May I make a suggestion in re-wording part of it? Make it read:
"NOTAM: The flight plans in the RTMM Flight Plans.zip may not be the same as a flight plan included in a scenery download from the Scenery Page. Flight plans included in the scenery downloads were created by the author of the scenery download and they must remain as they are. Of course you are free to use either, but understand that they could be different flight plans not flying the same routes as the RTMM Flight Plans zip download."
The above may sound redundant in "repeating" words sometimes, but not everybody who uses RTMM may know some "English nuances" we use in how we say things. The above change will make it very clear about "which downloads", "which sceneries", and "which flight plans" we are talking about.
Just my "teaching" background rearing it's ugly head again. With a pinch of the "Barriers to Effective Written Communication" course they made me take, too. ;D
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Readme fixed.
D
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Aye Doug.. the Boat trip is a nice run.. even channel buoys marking the way and the AI traffic. (Will include this optional boat trip and the trip tic on the AKA flight tour too!). I ran the boat tour docked at the Owikeno Casino & Resort for a persual then headed east... Also had no idea you could take a river run south of Dallary's Cabin.. and there is a camper with a tent up there.. (don't know where he is as he/she? left the campfire unattended!! and some deer or caribou? You can travel miles on that river (if one can negotiate the curves!!
Sure is great to have the RTMM addon scenery with all the POI and your trips. Very nice to fly as well as this Owikeno Lake boat tour. Thanks to all the designers and creators at RTMM.
Norm
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I'm gonna try the boat trips to, but haven't installed them yet. But I did kinda sorta take one already. Was flying a helo in Ketchikan and saw the Coast Guard AI ship coming down the straight. Had a helo deck on the back of it. I thought, "I wonder if they hard-coded the deck for landings", so I tried it. Worked like a charm. Landed on it, got a cup of coffee and a bagel, and "cruised" the entire Ketchikan straight looking at all the scenery and other AI boats passing by. The Coast Guard ship will start at the south entrance of the straight, cruise north past PAKT, then turn around and go all the way back again.
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People seem to be "finding" the new GoTo table. We are up to a unique visitor count of 213. As you use the table, let us know how you are using it.
Doug
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The main use for me right now has been the ability to quickly figure out where the different flights are geographically. I know where the main "big cities" are in relation to each other (Ketchikan, Juneau, Prince Rupert, etc) but would have no idea where a flight to Ashluhm Fish Lodge from Rivers End SPB would take place. I could "bounce around" between looking at different maps, like using the KMZ file in Google Earth or the map on the Here2There page for a location, but the GoTo now makes it easy to figure out where the different locations are.
There does appear to be a little inconsistency yet for some locations. For instance, the "Ashluhm Fish Lodge". There are two "Ashluhm" flight plans in the RTMM Flight Plans download. One called "Ashluhm Fish Lodge" and the other "Ashluhm Creek Ldge". On the Here2There page, there is an "Ashluhm Creek Fishing Lodge" listed as being in PFJ. On the GoTo page, the "Ashluhm Crk Fishing Ldg" is in PNW.
So...I'm forced to draw the following (tongue-in-cheek !!!) conclusions:
There's either 1 or 2 Ashluhm lodges, in one or two different locations, one with fish and one without fish. If two, then one with fishing and one without (except for the 3rd one on the Here2There page that magically has both), with one lodge in PFJ and one in PNW (or both the Twilight Zone). If there's only 1 lodge, then it must have a fishing and non-fishing season, and the lodge moves between PFJ and PNW on a seasonal fishing basis, and changes it's name according to whether it has fish or not at the time. ;D ;D ;D
(The above isn't a life changing thing. Just the kind of "Oops!" stuff that could be spread around the site that would be confusing for new RTMM users). ;)
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It is the same lodge, I fixed it in the RTMM FLight Plans and on the table.
The best way to know where things are are to download the kmz maps that Rustam has given us ....
http://www.return.mistymoorings.com/here_to_there/#kmz
That is an AMAZING tool. If you get Google Earth and put these kmz files in, you'll have everything you need to know about WHERE the RTMM locations are.
D
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Sorry I just now saw this post, I'm 120 days past due answering it. Thank you for the response.
Basically, the Here2There page gives folks a place to browse about getting ideas on where to fly to, so you'll find the dispatches there, etc. Also there is a "starting" table. You can look up any RTMM scenery and using those lat/long coordinates, you'll find yourself right at the location.
The autoroutes, on the Here2There are basically just flight plans to most of the locations. When I check them, I usually make a flight plan, so these are there just to share with you if you want them.
The GoTo table's mission is to help people pick and choose scenery locations they might want to download. Having them "grouped" (red) you can see that you can pull down MANY locations with just one download (Missing Cabins, for instance). Also, the map feature there lets you take a look at the flight to see if that is one you'd like to fly. If you pick it, if you have downloaded the autoroutes, the route will be there waiting for you when you load a scenario.
If you are interested in CIRP, you can search for CIRP and anything associated with that group of locations comes up. The same for BWEP, it is now up to date. So you can see which locations are related to which pipeline segment. If you have "The Interior" ... you can search for "interior" and up come the associated scenery locations for that pipeline segment.
The "from" column is for folks that want to pick places to fly to from a certain location. Lets say you want to fly out of Misty's Place. You search Misty's Place ... all of the locations and routes that apply to Misty's Place show up.
Hope this helps ... so sorry for the delay in answering, I simply didn't see the post.
Doug/RTMM
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Updating the GoTo Table
Norm and I are presently adding all of the MFC flight numbers to the GoTo Table. Norm is adding routes where we do not have a flight and I'm getting the alphabetical order correct and the entries correct to match the flight numbers.
NOTAM: GoTo Table and Translate
When you use the GoTo table (Here2There/GoTo Button), be sure you are not first seeing the "Translate this Page" box from a browser addon. If you see that, you are not seeing the special script that makes the filters for the page work correctly. If you see this, in that box, select OPTIONS and select DO NOT TRANSLATE THIS PAGE. The scripts will then function and the page will work correctly for you.
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Major GoTo Table Update ....
Norm and I have done some major updating of the GoTo table. We have taken out the "ease of flight" column and put in the MFC flight number for all of the locations showing. So now everything matches perfectly with the Misty Flying Club page and process.
49 new maps were added where we have added flights/locations.
If you look at the "legend" table, you'll see the major "groups" there, indicating the number of locations you will get when you download that package with LINKS TO THOSE GROUPS.
NOTAM: one thing to be cautious of, if you don't have ALL of the ORBX areas for RTMM (PNW, PFJ, SAK,) and Tongass X, when you download a group, you could be downloading locations in areas that are not ORBX compatible. To check this, once you have filtered (search) to the group you want, alphabetize the ORBX column (click at the top on ORBX). Then you can see the regions that group covers. Don't forget to expand the table to more than 10 (usually just expand to 100 and you'll be fine).
If you see typos ... and there may be some with a couple the thousands of entries Norm and I have put in... let us know and we'll fix them for you.
Doug
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Norm and I have mostly completed the update on the GoTo table. There are 715 flight plans now with MFC that are synchronized with the GoTo table and the Misty Flying Club site.
Get acquainted with the GoTo table. It can save you a lot of time in selection which locations to download ... even with direct links to groups now.
Flight selection is a lot easier. You want to fly out of Misty's Place? Put it into the search and look at all the places you can fly to from Misty's Place.
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Very Useful! Thanks for all your work on this!
Rod
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Wow! 715 Flights!
These are 2 years of flying doing one flight per day....
Thank you Doug and Norm!
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Actually it's only 713 RTMM Single flights.. lol.. but who's counting (besides us!)
Fun place to fly and now it's easier than ever to find your routes, access the corresponding RTMM flight plans then fly. (And additionally, if a MFC user, also log/record that same flight at the Misty Flying Club).
Norm