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Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D) => The Moorings - On the Water => Topic started by: jeff3163 on March 02, 2011, 01:32:58 AM

Title: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: jeff3163 on March 02, 2011, 01:32:58 AM
Sailing to Mistys.

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Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Bradallen43 on March 02, 2011, 06:02:13 AM
I like it!!
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Dragnhorn on March 03, 2011, 12:42:44 AM
Me too!  See Brad, I mentioned earlier that I also like to ride my boar in Misty's area.     :o    O, you meant "boat"??    ;)



(http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshots/images/155rob_on_pig.png)
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Avian on March 03, 2011, 02:51:49 AM
It's done something terrible to your leg! But you appear un-fazed, what stoicism!
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Doug on March 03, 2011, 08:28:29 AM
I'm using the boats more and more.  It is a completely different "view" of Misty from down on the water. When we are up high, we know where the turns are, down low, you have to really pay attention to the GPS to know if you are turning into the Thorne Arm or the Behm Canal.  Also the "rocks" are another challenge I didn't realize ... we only worry about them in landing zones.  But when sailing, they are all over the place ... many not marked. Suddenly there they are right in front of you, probably just like they are in the real world. So if you've got your "crash on" ... you WILL!  They are hard to see and dangerous.

But going along a shoreline is amazing. This just again demonstrates how good this ORBX technology is. There are houses along the shoreline you'll never notice from a plane ... roads going along the edge with cars. And the little boats we see from the air are "something else" down on the water. You really have to "look out" for them ... we've got more visual company on the water than we do in the air.

To try it, download a boat, there are some freebies if you like.  Start at Misty's Place at the dock and go to Murphy's Pullout.  This gives you some open areas ... with dangerous [Walden]  rocks ... and gives you a whole new view of the Narrows, passing by the cruise ships, etc.  My favorite boat so far is the DeltaSim Daisy Yacht. Not the fastest of their fleet, but fast isn't the point and is affordable.  (We don't fly F-16s at Misty's for the same reason). We are not there for the speed, but the view. Slow is better.

So after a long day of flying, step into your boat and take a nice and relaxing cruise.  I like to fly to someplace like Hugh Smith Lake, then get in the boat and explore the lake (I use the little DeltaSim Mailbu for that).  If you are a fisherman, you will do a little drooling when you explore some of the beautiful coves in these lakes (Mesa Lake is amazing).

The only problem I can find is that the autopilot on the boat will not work.  I cannot understand why. You can go into the config and set Autopilot="1" and you can even put a nav/gps switch onto the panel. Still, it will not respond to a "flight plan."  That's too bad because we could easily make some little routes with PLAN-G.  There's got to be a solution for that, but I've scoured the internet for it, and it simply is not addressed. The developer at DeltaSim says this is on his radar screen.  If anybody can figure it out, let us know ... this is something a lot of folks would like from reading the forums.  It would be fun to host that fix from RTTM.

Anyway ... give it a try.  It's a completely different "view" of what we've got ... a shame not to use it.

Doug
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Magnum Beaver on March 03, 2011, 10:32:31 AM
the reason there is no autopilot I think, is there is no [AUTOPILOT] section in the Aircraft.cfg file... I will check into it with my Sirocco and get back to you.. but I think all that needs to be done is to copy the autopilot section out of another aircraft and paste it into the aircraft.cfg of the boat... then of course you need to put a nav hold and nav/gps switch into the panel..  I'll take a look into it in a bit.. working on a different project atm..

***edit***

figured it out... the problem is that FS Autopilot is a 2 axis system controlling only pitch and bank... it doesn't control the rudder, and a boat of course only has a rudder, so there is no directional control from the autopilot... I'll take a look and see if there is a way to make it think it's using ailerons to turn, but I doubt it...


***edit***

yep, the prob is the 2-axis AP.. load up a floatplane and get it moving at just over idle power and turn on the autopilot to follow the nav course, and you'll see what I mean by switching to spot view.. the ailerons will be set to turn the aircraft, but because there is no banking while on the water, the plane will not turn.. same thing goes for the boat.. I even tried using the autorudder setting from the realism controls, and that didn't work.. next thing is probably to find an interested gauge programmer who can make a true 3-axis autopilot....  it can't be something of psyching the flight model into thinking that it's using the rudder, the gauge must actually interrogate the flight plan for direction instructions, and then use that to turn the oject using the rudder instead of the ailerons, so basic XML editing won't work here, it will have to be done in C, and will probably have to use simconnect because it will need an outside logic set rather than just using the event calls from the sim, but I am just making an armchair guess at that point, as I am not a programmer by any means...
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Bradallen43 on March 03, 2011, 01:38:18 PM
Guys,

The boating aspect of FSX is very intriguing to me. Reading your comments Doug gave me some ideas. For boat and floatplane locations, we could make some boating locations that you'd only be able to use a boat to reach. Like up a winding river, small lakes, etc.

Also, and I am not entirely sure how you do this, but it would be cool to have a "Boat In" where we set up a multi-player session and guests can do a sailing run from say, Misty's to Hunter Bay! All of us riding in our boats!! 

And.... If there are speedboats like ocean racers that you can use online, we create a package with scenery for a speedboat regatta! Multi-player online session racers join at a certain time, I can create a start line, course marker buoys, and a finish line for the race course. Add shoreline objects like tents, people, vending objects, balloons, etc. 
It would be easy to create the scenery we online race in. We could have other participants in the online session that use helicopters that follow along during the race from the air like you see during regattas.

I would definitely be interested in making some scenery for this. Anybody else into this idea?

Thanks Doug for planting another great seed here,

Brad
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Magnum Beaver on March 03, 2011, 01:45:22 PM
it wouldn't take a lot of arm twisting here, lol...
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Doug on March 03, 2011, 01:55:08 PM
Since we are all sort of "purists" for FLIGHT simming, I was sort of hesitant about even mentioning this. But this new scenery gives us a whole new dimension for the boating aspect. I tried some reg FSX scenery (St Lucia, Pantanel, etc) ... not too exciting at all.  But try it in ORBX and WOW!  So if you've tried it before and weren't impressed, I don't blame you.  Try it again. 

The only aggravation is you start at Misty's and there you are in a beautiful yacht in the yard! :-)  So slew to the dock ... then "save the flight" and you're ready for the next one.

Mag ... appreciate your looking into the autopilot thing. Nobody has got it figured out from what I can see. Spent the better part of my Google time this last week looking. I'm surprised someone hasn't nailed this one. But maybe we've never had a reason like we do now?

Thanks for looking in to that.  But I agree with Brad, there may be a whole new "concept' here .. the ORBX scenery is the key ... absolutely amazing at "water level."
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Magnum Beaver on March 03, 2011, 01:58:19 PM
try starting at PF21 (Misty's seaplane dock) not at PF20 (Misty's Place)  they are entered as 2 different airports..
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Doug on March 03, 2011, 02:16:56 PM
Darn, you're right!  I keep forgetting about that. I park over by the cottage in an amphib, sometimes the ramp to the Misty Canal other times down the runway ... Forgot all about that!  Thank you!
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Magnum Beaver on March 03, 2011, 02:34:38 PM
you're welcome :) I use both amphib and straight float, so I am at the seaplane dock more than the airstrip, lol...

but I've been testing a new flight model for the Caravan, and so I had to change my startpoint to the main strip:)
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Dragnhorn on March 03, 2011, 07:29:39 PM
I'm really liking this idea, mainly because ORBX scenery makes it shine!  Just a thought, I use the Water Rudder to steer my float plane.  Could this be used in conjunction with an AP somehow?

After I had PNW for a few weeks I made a flight in Oregon that ended next to a river.  Saw a little farm strip on Plan-G not to far away, so I used a boat to go up river to it.  I parked along the shore, switched to a sim Jeep to drive over to the little farm strip, then switched to a Piper Cub for the flight back to my original spot.  I had a blast using the sim this way, even tho aviation is my first love.  (so to speak)    ::)
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Doug on March 03, 2011, 07:54:04 PM
The "parked" picture (the one on top) is at N55 40.14 W130 37.75. An interesting place to "start" with a boat. Just follow the channel back to the Behm Canal ... about 20 miles and scenery like this all the way.  This is actually the route the big cruise ships take after they leave Ketchikan. They past New Eddystone Rock then turn into this area. Their "timing" is for dinner, so this is what you see from your dinner table. Finally the waterway stops and right there, with their side thrusters, they turn, "on a dime" (kind of like our slew!) and go back out.

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Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Magnum Beaver on March 03, 2011, 08:57:31 PM
where is the "Like" button????? ;D
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Magnum Beaver on March 03, 2011, 10:44:23 PM
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1893/201133164645494.jpg)
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: corbu1 on March 04, 2011, 04:26:10 AM
Hey, really nice picturrs here on this thread from all you guys!!! 8)
Some days ago I downloaded the freeware scirocco GTX2 Yacht but haventĀ“t tried a ride with it so far.
Seems I have to do this now. ;)
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: jeff3163 on March 04, 2011, 05:12:13 AM
I copied my boat file to the airplane directory, then made it an airplane, instead of a ship, in the aircraft.cfg file.  (ui_type=airplane) I also appended a "-1" to the title (title=QM-2-1) to aviod the duplicate aircraft message.  Now my cruise ship does steer a course with the autopilot, and follows the gps route.  When you go to the aircraft selection screen, you will now have two versions of your boat, one labeled airplane.  Choose that one and see if you get the same result as me.  Be sure the autopilot systems are all there in the aircraft.cfg file, and radio and gps panels in the panel.cfg.  I found that I was also able to use the rudder pedals while in NAV mode (to avoid an island that was in my way), but when left to its own, would steer back into line.  I've tested it twice now with success, but only with the QMII.  I'll work on setting up the sailboat with an autopilot, and test that next. 

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Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Magnum Beaver on March 04, 2011, 07:37:26 AM
okay... I think I'm on to something thanks to corbu... I just couldn't leave it alone, lol... there is one way to get the autopilot to work and I'm testing it... been up all night tweaking, but hopefully it proves a viable solution...

I think the method will involve spoilerons... create drag on a given side to turn the boat, rather than rely on bank...

I might just have a crappy boat for this, as the boat doesn't like to turn worth a hill of beans at anything less than 40 kts, and then it takes a long ways to turn, so testing waypoint turns is proving difficult...  but I will keep trying...
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Doug on March 04, 2011, 10:10:57 PM
The boat turning is tricky ... it slides like an airboat, so just a "touch" to change it at higher speeds. Tonight I ran about 80 miles up the Nass Inlet up the Nass river to Mesidian Lake ... got all the way to the campground there. Other than one bridge (that I pointed out in an email to Holger), there are NO obstructions ... it's narrow here and there, but an amazing ride. I couldn't believe how the river "changed" as I went up it ... from big mountains both sides, to narrow in a woods, to open in a flat area. The landclass changed too with rocky areas, grassy ,etc.  You really are "there" when you do this. 

One thing I did learn tonight. Forget the GPS and PLAN-G (they use the same terrain map).  These simply are not accurate enough for navigating a narrow waterway. Best way is to be outside/spot plane view ... above the boat enough to see ahead (there are islands and rocks, so you have to be careful.  But when you are in that view, hit "A" three times and you go to a top down. Use plus/minus to get the perspective you want. Can see the curves, islands, shoals and narrow parts coming ahead and can slow down to navigate them.  Again, don't trust the gps ... it is flat wrong. 

What an amazing new way to use this. And again, without PFJ, it is pretty "blah" ... but the scenery changes at every turn of the river ... absolutely amazing.

Doug
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: jeff3163 on March 04, 2011, 11:54:22 PM
I got the sailboat working, and created a flightplan from Misty's SPB to Wrangell SPB.  I set waypoints along the way to avoid obstacles.  I used that course to test the boats autopilot, fine tuning the flightplan as I went along.  I adjusted the [flight tuning] section, to fix the tracking.  Set pitch and elevator settings to "0", aileron and rudder settings to 4.  But, when I was working with a tall ship, 2-masts,  I  had  to  use "-4"  (minus four) for the ailerons and rudders instead, as it kept trying to turn the wrong way.  So now I have three ships that can follow the autopilot, and a flightplan.   

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Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Magnum Beaver on March 05, 2011, 02:12:15 AM
might want to look at posting them... I tried for 9 hours last night, and just couldn't seem to get it to work...
Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: jeff3163 on March 05, 2011, 05:03:26 AM
Here are the aircraft.cfg and panel.cfg of my sailboat.  Maybe there's something you can use in here.  There seems to be some things in the cfg file that didn't copy too well to my text file, in the "weight and balance" section in particular.  Ignore that, as I didn't touch that area of the file anyway.  And some of the cfg file is in french.  I'm not french, and don't speak or write it, so don't ask me what those parts say.  I didn't change anything french either.  The areas to look at are . . . title=(append a -1 or similar to this line), ui_type=airplane, [Flight Tuning] section, [autopilot] section, and make sure you've got an AP installed, with electrical to avionics, etc.  The way it is configured here, it goes about 72, and tracks within .65nm when cornering a 90 degree waypoint.  Good luck.

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Title: Re: Sailing to Mistys
Post by: Magnum Beaver on March 05, 2011, 05:59:31 AM
thanks.. I'll take a look and see what I can figure out :)