Misty Moorings Forums
Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D/MSFS2020) => Addon Scenery and Enhancements => Topic started by: jsapair on August 22, 2014, 12:58:55 AM
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I have been encountering them in my travels. Usually it's just a dumpster or something and normally I just move on but in some instances it's blatant. My question is three-fold. #1) Do you want to know about them. #2) Do you want me to post the locations, as per a photo, or do you need more info than that, i.e Lat/Lon. #3) Is this where I should be posting the pics, assuming that the above is a go. Willing to help if help is wanted in this matter. I'd like to know if anybody else is running into black objects and just ignoring it.
JJ
I'll attach a few pics.
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jsapair,
although not in every instance, if you simply include the coordinates (CTRL-Z) in the screen shot every time then it can be duplicated quite easily to check out what we see in that same exact location.
Usually if you see an object that is blackened out without any textures it is because you are missing either a texture file or more likely have not installed the library that contains those textures.
Can you tell us at what airport the screen shot was taken?
Question 1 = Yes
Question 2 = Yes (see above)
Question 3 = No, Help and Troubleshooting is a better forum for problem reports.
Question 4 = I sure hope not. Letting us know about problems is the only way they will ever get fixed if it is possible to do so.
In your shot I'm not sure what your trying to show with no textures due to it being such a wide view, best to get in close to the offending object and omit the aircraft altogether with a shot from the 2D cockpit without the instrument panel showing. The coordinates will allow us to find the location exactly as I have said above.
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I have the latest Terrace version and I looked at this in IS3. It looks like you are refering to the black object on the side of the hanger. It is Welcome_RTMM_1_sm from the OLD RTMM library CX_Signs.bgl. It shows for me because I still have that library yon my system. It also shows up on a post in front of Brad's BBQ. To further complicate things, strangely enough, this sign does not show up in the Terrace object list, even though I can see it. I think the reference of it was added to another scenery file somewhere and placed in another bgl. If you are familiar with IS then you know how this can mistakenly happen if you place objects into other scenery files by mistake. Clear as mud, right?
I'm not sure, but I think there may be a screw up in the RTMM required scenery library because all but one of the CX libraries are missing in the RTMM Required Object LibrariesFSXP3D Part II 6-7-14.zip file. (CX_Summit_signs.bgl is the only one in the library). The PDF that comes with Part II bears this out. Perhaps, and I don't remember, there was a permission issue with them and they had to be left out. Doug? Rod?
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JJ was asking me about this on PM ... I thought it might be good to get it up here so "real" minds could work on it!
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Missing library issue.
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JJ ... good point, did you use the scenery checker. If yes, then we've got to work on it because it should show what you are missing ... otherwise, we create a plan B! :-)
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While I agree that in Part II download there is only the one CX file ualani mentioned in his post the Ceyx_Scenery_LibrariesFSXP3D 6-17-14 contains 60 additional CX files. Why the one CX file is in Part II I'm not sure but IF you have the Ceyx_Scenery_LibrariesFSXP3D 6-17-14 installed the sign should show.
Now a word of caution here: If you are using old libraries and attempting to trouble shoot problems it may and quite likely will interject new problems as the older library could contain different objects/textures than what is currently being used by RTMM scenery. Please make sure you download and have installed the five RTMM libraries dated 06.07 2014 Parts 1 and II so everybody is on the same exact page from the git go or there could be differing advice.
As for the problem jsapair is experiencing it is a missing library texture problem but I'm not sure which library is the culprit. As your reporting instances of many black, no textured objects I'm assuming either you do not have one library installed or activated. Jsapir make sure you have all 5 RTMM required libraries installed and activated in FSX and in addition that you download and install the latest FTX/ORBX Library (currently 140703) because Instant Scenery 3 users have been know to use objects from those libraries in violation of ORBX terms of use and they could slip into RTMM scenery accidentally.
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Spud,
You are correct about the bgl. I was looking for an FSXP3D designation of CX_signs bgl, (FSXP3D CX_signs) which doesn't exist, and I didn't look in the Part I library for it where the bgl in question indeed resides, without the FSXP3D designation.
The textures in question are:
Old_wood_part.dds
Welcome_Misty_Moorings_4.dds
JJ,
Try moving these 2 textures, if you have them, into your main FSX texture folder and see what happens.
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If jsapair, has the two files in a library then there is no reason to move them as they will work wherever they reside and splitting up the library files isn't a good idea as then your install is non-standard and troubleshooting could be problematic after that. The closer to having all the same files in the same locations as everyone the easier it is to recommend corrections when problems pop-up and unfortunately the always seem to happen.
Good example of that is at the moment my FSX sound folder has disappeared and I have none of the RTMM .wav files that the scenery requires. This has caused any RTMM location that calls for sounds to cause a CTD of the sim with a "Creation Failed, no sound" error when you try to land or start from that location. Working on the cure now but presently it is a royal PITA! >:(
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Later,
Spud
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I have all 5 required FSXP3D libraries installed and activated, and I pass the scenery tester. Here's a couple more at PF27, Telkwa Mt. Lodge Airstrip.
The first is taken with my AC at N54 40.94, W127 31.29. You can see that the roof of the building is black. The second is looking down the airstrip from a pos. of N54 40.95, W127 31.31, basically the same spot.
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jsapair,
you definitely have a library problem of some type because if you compare the screen shots in my post with your shots the barrels marking the runway have no texture and the red roof texture is missing as well ans the end of runway barricades are completely missing as well
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Do a check for duplicates, just to rule that out. :-\
Another "black texture" thread, might be of some help somehow-
http://forum.mistymoorings.com/index.php?topic=1602.0
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Spud,
JJ had problems like this in the past and I had him move the textures to the main texture folder and they went away....worked for him in the past. It was something that Rod referred to trying in a post long ago, which worked. Just sayin'. (FSX looks there first.)
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I'm not sure, but I think there may be a screw up in the RTMM required scenery library because all but one of the CX libraries are missing in the RTMM Required Object LibrariesFSXP3D Part II 6-7-14.zip file. (CX_Summit_signs.bgl is the only one in the library). The PDF that comes with Part II bears this out. Perhaps, and I don't remember, there was a permission issue with them and they had to be left out. Doug? Rod?
The library is correct. FSXP3D CX_Summit_signs.bgl is in Part II because RTMM has ownership and we are allowed to use these objects in future scenery builds. All the rest of the CX libraries are in Part I without the FSXP3D prefix because we do not have permission to build future sceneries with these objects.
Rod
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Spud,
JJ had problems like this in the past and I had him move the textures to the main texture folder and they went away....worked for him in the past. It was something that Rod referred to trying in a post long ago, which worked. Just sayin'. (FSX looks there first.)
Previous texture problems just enforces my belief that his libraries are either not correctly installed and/or place in the sim.
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Hi Jaspair,
Since you are sure you have the new libraries installed correctly, one possibility is that you have old CeyX object .bgls still active from some other folders. Try disabling your CeyX_Sceneries_LibrariesFSXP3D library entry and then go back to Telkwa and see if the black objects are still showing up....if they are then you may have another .bgl set active somewhere.
Rod
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Spud,
Nope. Everything was placed as they should have been according to the screenshots he sent; checked, double checked, and triple checked. Placing suspect textures where I described fixed the problems he was having at that time. Maybe not the best solution, but it works.
Here's a quote from Rod regarding the same issue with a FedEx Depot texture problem that cropped up a while ago:
"Hi all,
I found this problem also, and, well, I wrote a nice little post on how sometimes textures just don't work etc. etc but then I thought of an issue from back a bit and tried the solution...and it worked. So I deleted that unhelpful post and am posting a solution instead.
For some unknown reason, a few textures will not apply correctly (on some systems) even though all is installed correctly. The solution for some of these obstinate textures is to copy them to the main FSX\Texutre folder. In this case, the textures for the airmail_depot, fbo_1, fbo_2 and fb0_3 object are:
airmail depot.bmp, airmail depot_LM.bmp, FBO 1.bmp, FBO1_LM.bmp, FBO 2.bmp, FBO 2_LM.bmp, FBO 3.bmp and FBO 3_LM.bmp
Go into the EZ Scenery Libary Texture folder and copy the above .bmp files into your FSX\Texture folder and you should be set to go.
Worked for me!
Rod"
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Rod, I tried disabling the CeyX_Sceneries_Libraries FSXP3D and returned to PF27 with no change. I did a search on a few CeyX .bgl files. It only found them in the above folder and where I have the old and new backed up on my desktop.
Steve, I copied those two files, old_wood_part.dds and welcome_misty_mooring_4.dds into the main texture folder, like we did before, and that corrected the missing sign at Terrace.
Spud, yes I've got the latest ORBX libraries,140703.
Ualani and I worked on similar problems in the past, before the new libraries were even released and, as he mentioned, moving the problem texture files to the main texture folder fixed them. That appears to be the case once again.
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JJ,
Based on your past experiences with this, this confirms my suspicions on how to deal with this recurring issue. Glad it worked for you again, but I wonder why this keeps happening?
(Latest, or older, ORBX libraries don't matter one way or another since they have nothing at all to do with our libraries.)
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Hi Steve,
If Jsapair disabled his main CeyX object library and the black texture objects showed up anyway (barrels horses and end of runway) then those objects are being supplied by another object library that is active somewhere (and orphaned from its texture folder) and is overriding the main CeyX library that contains those objects.
Putting the missing textures into the main texture folder simply allows all the rogue bgl to grab the textures since you have made them universally available. It is a quick fix but does not solve the root problem.
Jsapair, you might want to search for this library: CX_Airfields_Markers.bgl and see if it shows up more than once. That is the library that contains those barrels and horses at the end of the runway.
Rod
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Bingo! That search discovered an orphan sub-folder just named "scenery" under my Add On Scenery folder. In fact there are 11 CX_ .bgl files in there along with about 70 other .bgl files. There are some Woody's files and some RTMM files, too. Good score, Rod. I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel. Now, how should I proceed? Do I risk deleting that whole folder or do I pick and choose which files to delete? I have no clue what these files pertain to, some date back to 2004.
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That's what I was saying! ;) Check for duplicates. ::)
Glad you got it. 8)
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Right on, Jeff! I just didn't know exactly what file to look for a duplicate of. I hit the jackpot.
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Rod n' Jeff,
I think you earned a case of beer at Misty's Place from jsapair! ;D
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JJ,
This would probably explain all the problems you were having in the past as well. I believe the Addon Scenery folder has default scenery and texture folders in it by default after a new FSX installation. Probably safe to delete the rouge RTMM librarys' bgl's. It's easy to put stuff there by mistake with an errant mouse click or drag n' drop. Glad the root problem was finally resolved correctly.
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If you use Scruffyduck Software's "Duplicate Object Finder" you will know which files to remove. Also, the name of the bgl files are usually pretty descriptive. You will know which ones are generic and which ones are specific by the name. But, just use the tool to find duplicates and delete the copies that are in your Addon Scenery/scenery folder (or elsewhere).
The page where it can be found:
http://www.blog.scruffyduck.org.uk/index.php?/archives/62-Duplicate-Object-Finder-for-FS9-and-FSX-Released.html (http://www.blog.scruffyduck.org.uk/index.php?/archives/62-Duplicate-Object-Finder-for-FS9-and-FSX-Released.html)
The file itself:
http://www.scruffyduck.org.uk/files/dof_100.zip (http://www.scruffyduck.org.uk/files/dof_100.zip)
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Here is a link to the program:
http://www.scruffyduck.org/simple-airport-scanner/4584282795
The name is Simple Airport Scanner and it is quite easy to use.
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Sorry Spud, that's not the same program. It may be another tool that does the same thing. I don't know. Yours does include P3D in it's list, mine doesn't. But I use mine on P3D by pointing to it instead of FSX and it works fine. It looks for duplicate objects, not airports.
I've added links to it in my post above. Sorry for not including them right away. :-[
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Thanks all around. Beer is on me, for sure. This has been a thorn in my side for quite some time. Steve, I think you're right. This was the problem all along. I'll try that Scruffy Duck program, boys...sounds a whole lot easier than the manual way I was going to do it. Yeah, I see files in that folder that almost had to be put there by me. On the road to recovery. Can't wait to post a pic of PF27 with textures.
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Got 'er. Actually I just needed to find the folder and de-activate it. It was WAY down the priority list, #176, next to Scenery\Cities\Istanbul, and disguised as Addon Scenery\Addon Scenery, not Addon Scenery\Scenery. Again, thanks to all. :)
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Sounds like the Duplicate Object Finder should be used with caution and not haphazardly:
"Although in some cases the presence of duplicate objects represents a potential issue this is not necessarily the case. We need to make it very clear that finding duplicates should not automatically result in a hunt for and removal of them from your system. There are many good reasons why objects may be duplicated and removing them could affect the scenery you have on your system in ways that you really do not expect."
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As Lucy in "Peanuts" used to say:
"5 cents please".
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Hi Jsapair,
Not clear if you have and Addon Scenery\Scenery folder and an Addon Scenery\Addon Scenery\Scenery folder. I do know that the latter should not exist but the Addon Scenery\Scenery folder is a valid FSX folder that should be on your system and enabled. There are some bgl files in there that are probably supposed to be there since some developers have you put certain .bgls in that folder. Therefore some of the .bgls in that folder are probably valid. It should not be disabled. There should not be any cx.... files in there so remove those. I would also leave in there any af2 and ADEX files. I am guessing woody's files shouldn't be in there.
Rod
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Steve, Rod. The Duplicate Object Finder that Jeff sent me only found 2 objects out of the 70 or so that I know were duplicates in the Add On Scenery/Scenery folder. I started doing a manual search on the objects one at a time and after 25 or so they all showed Addon Scenery/FXSP3D and Addon Scenery/Scenery, so I disabled that folder-Addon Scenery/ Scenery and that recovered my missing textures at PF27. I don't know boys, I'm at your mercy. When we're talking duplicates are we just talking .bgl files or .dds files? I've got tons of duplicate .dds files, no doubt. Anyway, that's where a search found multiple .bgl files and that's why I disabled the Addon Scenery/Scenery folder. Awaiting further insight.
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How did you disable the Addon Scenery/scenery folder? Is it still located in your FSX installation? I ask this because if it is disabled then the .bgl files are not being accessed and if things look correct then you can actually remove the .bgl files completely. I would suggest that they be moved to a folder outside of FSX leaving the Addon Scenery/scenery folder in the sim but empty. If things 'go south' you can always move the files back. It all is OK then dump the extra files.
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Steve, Rod. The Duplicate Object Finder that Jeff sent me only found 2 objects out of the 70 or so that I know were duplicates in the Add On Scenery/Scenery folder. I started doing a manual search on the objects one at a time and after 25 or so they all showed Addon Scenery/FXSP3D and Addon Scenery/Scenery, so I disabled that folder-Addon Scenery/ Scenery and that recovered my missing textures at PF27. I don't know boys, I'm at your mercy. When we're talking duplicates are we just talking .bgl files or .dds files? I've got tons of duplicate .dds files, no doubt. Anyway, that's where a search found multiple .bgl files and that's why I disabled the Addon Scenery/Scenery folder. Awaiting further insight.
You should just worry about duplicate .bgl files that are already in the 5 Main RTMM Object Libraries. Those are the only ones that I would take out of the Addon\Scenery folder. I would then leave the Addon\Scenery folder active. And address any other problems that show up on a library by library basis.
Rod
Rod
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Hi, Rod, Spud. Found that folder with the Scenery Configuration Editor. Like I said, it was hiding as Addon Scenery\ Addon Scenery rather than Addon Scenery\ Scenery. I took a chance and disabled it and my textures came up. The first 25 or so I checked individually in Addon Scenery\Scenery were all duplicates of RWY12 FSXP3D. I haven't deleted anything yet, just disabled the folder. If that's a valid FSX folder that would explain why it's so far down the priority list...been there since day1. I'll take your advice, check the rest of them, delete what's duplicated in the FSXP3D folders, and re-activate the folder. Maybe move it up in priority to where all my other scenery libraries are. So far I haven't seen anything detrimental by disabling the folder but better safe than creating problems down the line if something wants to write to it. Thanks for your input guys.
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jsapair,
I think you were the victim of what I term 'cursor bounce'. I'm plagued by it all the time, when you are trying to move or copy a file or folder to one location just about the time you release the mouse button the dang cursor 'jumps or bounces' to another nearby (usually) folder and the move/copy is made to the wrong location. It can really mess ya up.
For what its worth the FSX\Addon Scenery folder has two sub folders 'scenery and texture' normally these are empty sub-folders. Usually addon scenery folders are placed into the Addon Scenery folder. This would make it look like (example):
Addon Scenery
My Scenery 1
My Scenery 2
My Scenery 3
scenery
texture
I hope that makes sense.
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Hi, Rod, Spud. Found that folder with the Scenery Configuration Editor. Like I said, it was hiding as Addon Scenery\ Addon Scenery rather than Addon Scenery\ Scenery. I took a chance and disabled it and my textures came up. The first 25 or so I checked individually in Addon Scenery\Scenery were all duplicates of RWY12 FSXP3D. I haven't deleted anything yet, just disabled the folder. If that's a valid FSX folder that would explain why it's so far down the priority list...been there since day1. I'll take your advice, check the rest of them, delete what's duplicated in the FSXP3D folders, and re-activate the folder. Maybe move it up in priority to where all my other scenery libraries are. So far I haven't seen anything detrimental by disabling the folder but better safe than creating problems down the line if something wants to write to it. Thanks for your input guys.
Hi Jsapair,
Unfortunately, I still can't quite get the picture of your situation. Were the duplicates in a folder with the path .....FSX\Addon Scenery\Scenery or were they in a folder with the path ......FSX\Addon Scenery\Addon Scenery\Scenery?
If you answer the latter, do you then also have a folder with the path FSX\Addon Scenery\Scenery and if so, what is in that folder?
Rod
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Rod, the path is Addon Scenery\ Scenery and in it are the duplicate .bgl files. The Scenery Configuration Editor showed it as Addon Scenery\ Addon Scenery but that's not the correct path. I shouldn't have even mentioned it as it just confuses the issue, obviously. Sorry. I do have an Addon Scenery\Addon Scenery folder but it's not related to RTMM, it's a 3rd party airport. I'll attach a snip of the tree, it's right below SAK Skagway RTMM, and two snips of the contents. Probably should've done this in the very beginning.
Spud, I hear ya. I'm notorious for inadvertently right-clicking with my fumble fingers at just the wrong time, like while dragging a folder, and it's uh-oh...where'd that go? Then a year or two later you say, Oh, there's that folder, how'd that get in here? Yep.
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Hi Jsapair,
Ok, thanks for the clarification. Here is what I would recommend so you can put this to bed. I assume the .jpg pictures are the contents of your Addon Scenery\Scenery folder. I would make a copy of the Scenery folder and store it somewhere outside of FSX in case you need to go back to it. Then, I would delete everything from that folder except:
SA01_ADEX_DWT.bgl
SA02_ADEX_DWT.bgl
MMC8_ADEX_DWT.bgl
MMCX_ADEX.DWT.bgl
Then re-enable the folder and that will get you 98% correct. One or two of the other files may need to bet there but you can cross that bridge if you come to it. I know for a fact that the 4 files above need to be there. They are Dex's folders to handle specialized AI ship traffic. SA01 is for the cruise ship at Skagway and SA02 is for the Cargo Ship at the dock in Anchorage. They are put in the Scenery folder by the AI Shipping Package.
Rod