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Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D) => General Discussion => Topic started by: Doug on August 30, 2012, 12:38:30 PM

Title: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Doug on August 30, 2012, 12:38:30 PM
As you know, Plan-G and FSX flight plans MUST start from an airport runway.  So when you use Flight Planner and put in such a plan, you find yourself on the runway. This is OK most of the time, but for the little Sea Plane Bases (SPB's) you will find yourself far out on the water, often too far to even see the dock for the facility. 

NOTAM: These would only be put into the FS (Flight Seeing) plans ... these are designed for LOW and SLOW (and DANGEROUS) trips "among" the mountains instead of over them! All of them are auto-pilot friendly that can take you to your destination in the worst weather. (Landing is up to you though!)


The small SPB's that Holger put into Tongass Fjords X are little gems, but you hardly ever see them because of the above problem. To make your flight more enjoyable and more realistic, I'm going to begin putting a "FS_Start_Point.txt" file in to each of these that starts from a little SPB.  The instructions for "how" to do this are in that text file. We will especially use this as we add more locations to the Tongass Fjords X area.

This starts you at the dock at the little SPB. Following the procedure in the txt file, your flight plan is "in" the GPS and you can taxi out from the dock to the "water" runway and take off.  I'll also put the Starting Point for any of these SPB's onto the Starting Points section of the Map Room.  (Misty's Place/Starting Points button).

The first one is Petrof Bay Camp.  Attached is the FS_ you can download for that flight and you can see the new text file there. If you are starting any flight from Port Walter, you can go to the Map Room and you'll find the starting point there too.

The screenshots below show you where you normally start with FSX, and then where you can start using the new Start Point setting.

It is an "extra step" ... but one that seems to make the experience more fun. Let me know what you think.  Hopefully, using this we will all get to see more of the "work' Holger put into the little SPB's that we almost never see.  It is optional, use it if you like it, disregard if you do not.

Doug
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Dieter on August 30, 2012, 06:13:31 PM
==> Plan-G and FSX flight plans MUST start from an airport runway

Doug,
a PlanG flight plan must start from an AFCAD coded airport/waterport. One cannot file  a PlanG  flight plan beginning  at an unlisted airfield runway (user waypoint)  I'm sure that's want you meant, too.

As you wrote, the AFCADs for waterports starting points are often far away from a dock or a mooring.
I  think  "FS_Start_Point.txt"  files are basically a good idea and a great help to set the aircraft to the right place via these coordinates.

But what about AFCADs for these docks?

I wonder if we do not have a specialist among the RTMM users who is able to produce AFCAD files for those waterport docking facilities using  "Airport Design Editor".
Isn't that generally practicable?

Dieter
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Doug on August 30, 2012, 07:06:21 PM
Yes Dieter, that's exactly what I meant, thank you.   We may be able to work with the AFCAD files ... I'll do some looking into it. But what I'm having a hard time believing is how much of Tongass Fjords X I've been missing by starting at the "prescribed" runway start point.  As with the pics earlier, you can barely see some of these facilities. And some of them, up close are AMAZING.  Entrance Island, Pelican, Angoon ... beautiful seaport towns.  One little community, Scull Bay, has a pier and one could start from there.

I've put 30 of them (starting points) into the Starting Points area (Misty's Place/Starting Points Button). My thinking is that RTMM is about flying from "Here" to "There".  We are pretty good at the "There" building great locations for the folks to go find. But what I'm looking at in this case is the "Here" part of it. And just by starting at these marvelous docks doubles the visual fun.  Right now it is an extra step for people, but once they get the hang of it, it is easy to do.

We'll look into the AFCAD thing ... I've got some "studying" to do in that area.  I did it for Owekeno, but I'm not sure about putting in an alternate starting point for an airport runway already there like the SPB's. They should all start at a dock, just like the one at Hollis does.

D
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: HighGround on August 31, 2012, 07:24:13 PM
. . . They should all start at a dock, just like the one at Hollis does.

Hear-hear!
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Doug on August 31, 2012, 08:52:06 PM
OK ... we've got a 'beta' going if anyone wants to try it. We figured out how to put the planes at the docks! (So you don't have to start miles out into the ocean!). At this point in time, we only have 4 of them done, (still on the learning curve), but you can download those four and see how the system will "probably" work. It has always bothered me with the SPB's that you can barely see them in the distance when you use the normal SPB start points. So you miss the "Here" in "From HERE to THERE".  Hopefully, this will give you the first part you are missing.  We plan to make many flight-seeing trips starting at these points in the future.

Go to Misty's Place / Starting Points button ... in that brown table, there is a # ... that is the indicator that a location is "in" the RTMM Docks scenery folder. You can download that right from the link on that line in the brown table and there is a readme in it that will get you set up.  You put the folder into your usual Addon Scenery area and activate it. Then when you go to FSX/World/Go to Airports ... you'll find the new ones listed. Click on it and you will find yourself nestled up to a dock with a whole new 'view' for a start point.

Many of these little sea plane bases are real works of art, and we've been missing them.  We have more work to do, and your comments and criticisms are welcome. Note also that if you decided you don't want these (for whatever reason) you just uncheck it in your Scenery library and they are gone.  One drawback to this are the "official" ICAO codes (airport call letters). Ours are fictitious. For an unlisted dock like Sawginaw West, the ICAO will be ULSW  and for a SPB like Port Walter PWR, we add a "D" to make it PWRD.  Of course these are not "official" and some people will go nuts that they are not on the legal listing ... for those people I give them two options ... don't download it, or uncheck it if you do! :-)

Anyway ... something new, hopefully a step in the right direction.

PS - to get a good "view" of what we are attempting, go to Port Alexander SPB Dock. You get to see the whole community as you taxi by, (that you've probably never seen before ... this is Tongass Fjords X).
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 01, 2012, 12:21:00 AM
Port Walter SPB starting point.
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Holger Sandmann on September 01, 2012, 01:04:57 AM
Hi guys,

maybe I don't understand the issue correctly but the 28 listed seaplane bases in Tongass already contain full (i.e., AI ready) "AFCAD" files with start positions at their respective docks. For example, if you start a flight at Port Alexander (AHP), in addition to selecting "Active Runway" you have the choice of two dock positions in the "Choose runway/starting position" submenu. Port Walter has three dock positions, etc.

Also, with the FSX flight planner you can create a flight plan after loading the initial position without having to reposition to the runway. Is Plan-G different in this regard?

On the other hand there are those 16 unlisted US Forest Service docks, listed in the TongassX manual on page 35/36, that could benefit from separate start position files.

Cheers, Holger
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Dieter on September 01, 2012, 03:19:13 AM
Holger,

thank you very much for your remarks.
I'm using FSX for many years now but I have to admit honestly, I never tried these dock starting points of your Tongass X seaplane bases.   :-[
Yes, perfectly done (like all your work).

Dieter
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: stiletto2 on September 01, 2012, 07:34:02 AM
Hi all,

Sometimes it helps to have an expert like Holger point out the obvious.  We had all gotten so used to just starting with the default runway chosen, that we have forgotten that most airports & seaplane bases have been designed to allow you to choose where to start and Holger did not disappoint.  I have attached a picture below (with the drop down box open) in case some of you don't know where the starting point selection is.  Thanks, Holger. 

Rod

Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Doug on September 01, 2012, 07:34:49 AM
Great. We will go after the missing" ones, that will save us a lot of time. On our flight seeing plans we will have to POINT OUT the dock start point... I think most of us missed that. Thank you Holger.  I think now more people will appreciate all the work you did on those little communities. The secondary reason for this project is for the boat people hiding among us. With the clusters of cabins up around Petersburg and the VERY difficult sloughs there, surface navigation is a challenge.  We will also be able to put a start point for any key locations we put in.  It's a good tool for us.

The project will continue, just altered a little making it even better.

D
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: stiletto2 on September 01, 2012, 07:50:31 AM
Hi Doug,

Yes, pointing out the proper start point selection will be important...especially if it is not the default "active runway".  For example, at PWR, the Dock 2 point is a much better choice than Dock 1 since the Dock 1 choice has the floatplane 90 degrees to the dock pointing to the floatplane dock ramp up.  However, the Dock 1 option is there if you want to realistically go to your plane (which has been parked up on the dock ramp) and manually turn it out to be ready to depart.

Rod
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Doug on September 01, 2012, 09:02:32 AM
OK, I've added what we were reminded of by Holger and what Rod has said below to the FAQ page under "S" Starting Points. It is all explained there.  The RTMM_Docks.zip has been updated to take out Port Walter and Port Alexander.  Now only UNlisted ones will be showing there. (There are only a few as of this writing). We have the list of UNlisted docks for Tongass and we'll be adding those to this.

Note also that we may be putting in some of our own "starting point" ADE files.  Especially for the boats, we do not have to start at the local seaplane base any more, we can now start from a very remote location. When those situations arise, they will show up in this list and in this folder. Any starting point that is in the new RTMM_Docks.zip will be indicated with a "#" sign after the name of the location on the Starting Points Page.

I know why we all missed it.  When you go to look at "Angoon" in the Go to Airport area ... when you click on it, it highlights the line it is on. If you click it again, off you go to the water runway, and that's what we all do. This is not "intuitive". Once it is highlighted you DO NOT CLICK it again, but go down to the Choose Runways/Starting Positions drop down and select a dock. Simple, but a lot of us missed it. And when we missed it, we missed all the work Holger put into these little communities. Now we are going to highlight this and make sure nobody misses the "HERE" in the "from HERE to THERE".

I've now added all of the unlisted docks to the RTMM_Docks.zip file from Holger's list at Tongass X. To know if you have the latest, look at the date beside the link in the brown area at the top of the Starting Points table (Misty's Place/Starting Points button).

There are a couple like Cape Decision Lighthouse where there is a helipad, but not a float plane dock. So I've added a dock to it and it is now a good "float" start point. (Picture Below)
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 01, 2012, 07:38:00 PM
I just installed the last three scenery's that came out recently.I also installed the latest RTMM_Docks.It is activated.

I did go to Port Walter(PWR).The dock and the small boat is there.Based on Jeff's screenshot.The building/cabin at the dock is missing,and if there should be AI traffic there,it's not showing up either.If there is a scenery for Port Walter.I don't have it.Port Walter is not in the main scenery downloads,that I can see?.

My next question is about the RTMM_Docks.I did install and activate the current one that is available.
While I was in the sim.I typed each of the ICAO codes that are there.None of the codes show up,as to location,so I can go to it?.I did try using a three letter code,and the names them selves.Such as Thomas Bay Dock etc.
I don't know what I may be doing wrong,if I'm doing anything wrong?.Maybe I'm missing some Tongass objects packages.As far as I can tell.I have everything required.I think

I do have TongassX installed,as I always have etc.

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: stiletto2 on September 01, 2012, 08:48:37 PM
Hi GrayRider,

The extra cabin etc.  at Port Walter, is place by a RTMM scenery that is in development......Jeff is one of the testers......the new scenery addon that Brad is working on (I am providing some help) is going to be very nice.  It details the Little Port Walter Marine Station that is just on the other side of the little piece of land where Port Walter is.  Stay tuned.......

Also, I have found that there is a problem with the ICAO codes in the docks (start points) addon....

The following 6 codes are recognized differently by FSX (at least for me) versus the documentation....

Documentation            FSX

ULCB                        UNCB
ULEB                        UNEB
ULFF                        UNFF 
ULL                          UNL                         
ULNB                       UNNB
ULPL                        UNPL

Doug will have to look into this and decide what is correct.

Let us know if this isn't the problem for you.....

Rod
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 01, 2012, 09:46:08 PM
Hi GrayRider,

The extra cabin etc.  at Port Walter, is place by a RTMM scenery that is in development......Jeff is one of the testers......the new scenery addon that Brad is working on (I am providing some help) is going to be very nice.  It details the Little Port Walter Marine Station that is just on the other side of the little piece of land where Port Walter is.  Stay tuned.......

Also, I have found that there is a problem with the ICAO codes in the docks (start points) addon....

The following 6 codes are recognized differently by FSX (at least for me) versus the documentation....

Documentation            FSX

ULCB                        UNCB
ULEB                        UNEB
ULFF                        UNFF 
ULL                          UNL                         
ULNB                       UNNB
ULPL                        UNPL

Doug will have to look into this and decide what is correct.

Let us know if this isn't the problem for you.....

Rod

Thanks Rod.

I just tried the six you mentioned in FSX.None of them show up in my FSX.Using the UN part of the ICAO codes.They all show Russia as a location.

So for the moment.None of the ICAO codes show up in my FSX including the 6 you mentioned,using the codes you provided that should be in FSX.You see those 6 you mentioned in FSX(That should be in FSX),but I don't.

No hurry.I'm sure it will get sorted out in time.

GrayRider

Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Doug on September 01, 2012, 09:48:04 PM
I've decided to go to the standard "PFxx" numbering system (which I should have done earlier). The entries in the newly uploaded RTMM_Docks.zip file (uploaded 11:05 pm EST 09/01.2012) are now:

PF51   Corner Bay Dock
PF52   Cape Decision Lighthouse
PF53   Edna Bay Dock
PF54   Five Finger Lighthouse
PF55   Frederick Point VOR Dock
PF56   Institute Creek Marina Dock
PF57   Labouchere Dock
PF58   Naukati Bay Dock
PF60   Pakes Landing Dock
PF59   Portage Bay Dock
PF61   Rowan Bay Dock,
PF62   Scow Bay Dock
PF63   Saint Johns Dock
PF64   Sawginaw West Dock
PF65   Thomas Bay Dock
PF66   Tonka Mountain Dock
PF67   View Cove Dock

You can also find these listed on the FAQ Page under ICAO (All of our PFxx) airports are there.

The only scenery addition is a small dock at Cape Decision Lighthouse which gives us float plane capabilities from that point ... previously, it was only heli.

The new RTMM_Docks.zip is "up" with a changed "readme" to reflect these changes. Let me know how this works for you, it works fine for me.

Doug

PS: If you downloaded an earlier version, go to your scenery library and delete the RTMM_Docks. then go into your Addon Scenery area and delete that folder. Put the new RTMM_Docks folder there, go back to your scenery library and reactivate it. It should work fine.
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 02, 2012, 12:57:45 AM
I just installed your newest RTMM_Docks.zip.

I deleted the previous one first.Now all the docks show up(PF51 thru PF67).

I did see some of the locations when I checked each one,only have the docks.Now other scenery for these locations.
Maybe there isn't any scenery addons for all these locations mentioned above,except for some of them.

All the docks are there,and thats what counts.

Thanks Doug

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: stiletto2 on September 02, 2012, 02:22:15 AM
Thanks, Doug.


Quick work!

Rod
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 02, 2012, 02:38:05 AM
I took off from Sawginaw and headed out for PF67, View Cove.  It is a 100 mile trip so I landed at Edna Bay for the night.  It's late here in real life.  G'nite.  Thanks Doug, so far so good.  I liked the placement at Sawginaw at the end of the dock on 35.  I think the "35" in the start point selection should read "dock" instead though. :-\
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Doug on September 02, 2012, 09:31:39 AM
OK, The latest version of RTMM_Docks.zip is "up" and online.

I've changed the lettering system from PF to TF for Tongas Fjords X (this shows also in the FAQ for ICAO codes.  Here are the new codes:

TF01   Cape Decision Lighthouse
TF02   Corner Bay Dock
TF03   Biorka Island Dock   
TF04   Edna Bay Dock
TF05   Five Finger Lighthouse
TF06   Frederick Point VOR Dock
TF07   Institute Creek Marina Dock
TF08   Labouchere Dock
TF09   Naukati Bay Dock
TF10   Pakes Landing Dock
TF11   Portage Bay Dock
TF12   Rowan Bay Dock,
TF13   Scow Bay Dock
TF14   Saint Johns Dock
TF15   Sawginaw West Dock
TF16   Thomas Bay Dock
TF17   Tonka Mountain Dock
TF18   View Cove Dock

If you have downloaded before, "outside" of FSX, go in and take out the old RTMM_Docks folder in your scenery library, and add the new one. Then Start up FSX.

For the boaters:  I used the DeltaSim Gemini as the model for this. Anything "bigger" will be a little misplaced, but if you use that sized boat (which is best for a lot of this open water work), then the will be placed correctly by the dock.  Before, I had the aircraft snugged up to the dock, but when you put in the boat, it would overlap the dock, and these docks are mosty 'hardened" meaning your boat would be in the air about 4 feet over the dock. So the positioning works now for both boats and planes.

I added some night lighting here and there so when you are navigating at night with a boat, you can find the dock ... this works pretty well.  Also at the Institute Creek (a new one), I added a long dock and some scenery so the larger boats would work. That marina is too crowded to maneuver .. now you can do it easily.

There may be other changes we need, but what is up there now is the latest.

D
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 02, 2012, 09:17:08 PM
I just replaced your docks folder.

I picked one of them.I went to TF06 Frederick Point VOR Dock.My plane is sitting six feet in the air at the dock..
I'll have to go and check all of them,to see if any of the other TF codes dock me in the air etc.

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 02, 2012, 09:45:54 PM
I just finished a tour of the docks, and all worked good for me.  Here are four random docks.  They all were right on the money.
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 02, 2012, 09:54:24 PM
. . . and four more, since I went to the trouble to make them.  Well, the last one the plane wasn't actually "parked" but it was before I pulled out for the pic.  That was actually the first shot I took on the tour.  Near PAW2.
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 02, 2012, 10:01:33 PM
I just checked all of the new 18 codes used for the docks.

All of them are good to go,except TF06.I'm attaching a screenshot.When TF06 loads up.My plane is in the air and it floats down to where it is in the screenshot,Hmmm?.

Jeff.In your last screenshot.I noticed when I went to that location.I don't have any boats in parking spots,as seen in your last screenshot.Any ideas?.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot1989.jpg)

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 02, 2012, 10:22:30 PM
 . . . and mine.
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 02, 2012, 10:33:58 PM
No idea why you wouldn't have boats here.  I couldn't "turn 'em off".  I tried turning off all AI boat sliders, and scenery sliders.  No effect whatsoever.
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 02, 2012, 11:03:35 PM
Your last two shots,look like one of the scenery's in in scenery downloads section?.If so which one is it??.

My TF06 problem.When I had the previous RTMM docks installed PF51 to PF 67.The one dock in question worked fine.I took that package out and added the new RTMM Docks package TF01 thru TF18.
Note:I did not delete the previous package in the Library.I just went into my addon scenery's and deleted that folder and added the new RTMM Docks folder and did not re-activate it since it's already in the library.I then started my sim,and it did do a data build,as it should have.

Now I'm wondering if I have an ICAO code conflict.The previous ICAO used was PF55.The replaced one is TF06.
Another Note.I just went back to TF06.There are two parking spots I can choose from.Either Active Runway or 36C.The first time I tried it I chose parking 36C.Giving me the problem.This time I chose Active Runway.The parking is normal.No issues.I'll leave it at that,and see what happens.


GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 03, 2012, 03:06:54 AM
Those pics above are from TF07, Institute Creek Marina Dock.  It's about 3-4 miles south from Wrangell.  It would be part of Tongass Fjords, with a little help from Doug, I think.  Nice placement of the "Misty Moorings" office.  I like it.

If you DELETE the old RTMM docks folder, and replace it with the latest edition and reboot FSX, there will be no ICAO code conflicts.  All should work as planned.  It couldn't hurt to also delete the RTMM docks entry from your scenery library and re-add it, for a "freshener" of your scenery library. 
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 02:11:31 PM
Here are a few shots of my TF07, Institute Creek Marina Dock.Everything is there,except for the static boats parked in numerous dock spots.I assume they are all static boats?.All my traffic sliders are set to 80%.If the boats parked are static.I would not think the traffic sliders would have much to do with it etc?.

So.For the moment I don't know why there's no static boats showing up at TF07.Maybe Doug might have some Ideas.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot1990.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot1991.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot1992.jpg)

GrayRider 
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Doug on September 03, 2012, 02:16:47 PM
The Sliders are for the AI boats (moving ones).  So that won't affect you.  But this is really interesting. I almost looks like you are missing the objects library that Holger used for scenery for Tongass X. Have you got Tongass installed correctly? I don't recognize the static boats he uses there, so it must come from something inside Tongass X. "My boats" are there in you picture ... but I use "Vehicles" ... part of the object libraries we link to on the Objects page. So that's not your problem.  I'm only guessing, but it looks like you are missing a library from Tongass X.

D
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 02:23:37 PM
. . . and four more, since I went to the trouble to make them.  Well, the last one the plane wasn't actually "parked" but it was before I pulled out for the pic.  That was actually the first shot I took on the tour.  Near PAW2.

Jeff.I want to ask about,what I guess is a tool or a program.In some of your shots above in green or blue.It shows other nearby destinations/names and NM to the locations.I'd like to have something like this,to see what locations are around me on screen,such as yours.Thanks for any info,and how I can add it etc?.

I had something like this when I had FS9.It was called Easy VFR and Landmarks.It was a payware.

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 02:36:06 PM
The Sliders are for the AI boats (moving ones).  So that won't affect you.  But this is really interesting. I almost looks like you are missing the objects library that Holger used for scenery for Tongass X. Have you got Tongass installed correctly? I don't recognize the static boats he uses there, so it must come from something inside Tongass X. "My boats" are there in you picture ... but I use "Vehicles" ... part of the object libraries we link to on the Objects page. So that's not your problem.  I'm only guessing, but it looks like you are missing a library from Tongass X.

D

Yes I have Tongass X installed properly.I've never had any problems with it,that I've ever seen.If I am missing an object library that Holger uses.I don't know which object library I should be looking for in FSX ,or the name of the object library by Holger.I'm assuming it would be a static boats library for Tongass X.
This is the first RTMM I've added,with this issue.

Maybe Holger or others will see this thread,and have Ideas as well

Thanks Doug

GrayRider 
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 03, 2012, 02:37:33 PM
The file responsible for the boats' placements are from TF Higher priority, and is called "TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_ShoemakerBay_boats.BGL", and the boats themselves come from the FSX library "vehicles_water.bgl".  ;)

(Blow the pictures up to Full Screen to read the tags.)
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Doug on September 03, 2012, 02:51:00 PM
I didn't realize those were from FSX, Jeff. I've got to do some more looking, those are some nice boats that I haven't used.

As for the "Green Names" ... that is FSDiscover!  RTMM has a database of over 900 data entries for all kinds of things that the GMAC database left out ... and it has THOUSANDS of them.  Also, all of our "locations" are in the rtmm.dat file for FSDiscover. It is Payware, but one of the better dollars spent (for my money). This makes the Trip Tic's come alive because the turns being pointed out are right there coming up on your screen.

Doug
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 03, 2012, 03:00:06 PM
Sorry, but the "green names" are created by Instant Scenery 2.  I'm not using FSDiscover! in those shots.  I was digging up those file/folder names for Grayrider.  There must be a problem with his "...ShoemakerBay_boats.bgl" file, or is there an update for TF that he's missed, maybe.

OH, ok.  I see, Doug.  I hadn't seen the above question about FSDiscover.  Yes, that is a scenery tag program we use, called FSDiscover! which shows the names of landmarks, airports, geological features, etc. as you fly along.  The database is updated regularly here at RTMM, for locations around our area.  You should get it.     
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: stiletto2 on September 03, 2012, 03:15:47 PM
HI GrayRider,

This is the location of the file that Jeff is referring to....check to see if it is there.....

.....\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\FSAddon\Tongass_Fjords\Tongass_Fjords_Higher_Priority\scenery\TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_ShoemakerBay_boats.BGL

If it is missing, that means bigger problems and you would need to repair Tongass by running "repair" if you have that exe in the Tongass_Fjords folder or reinstall Tongass....

Rod
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 04:08:26 PM
Rod.

I just checked my Tongass X files.I'm attaching a screenshot of the file you mentioned.It is there.I'm a PC dummy.So I'm not sure whats next,to figure out why the boats are missing.
In my FSX library my Tongass X higher and lower priority folders are sitting just under my ORBX stuff,and are in proper order etc.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot1995.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot1997.jpg)

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Handie on September 03, 2012, 04:32:19 PM
I went to TF07 and I have also all boats :
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Holger Sandmann on September 03, 2012, 04:49:36 PM
Hi guys,

since the docks and breakwater berms are also placed by the same Tongass X file it can't be an issue with the placement file nor can it be some exclude that removes objects (it would remove everything). Instead, I'd check for the "vehicles_water.bgl" file in \Scenery\Global\scenery, which contains the default FSX boats. It should be about 42MB in size and date stamped September 2007.

FYI, all global FSX default object libraries are located in that folder.

Cheers, Holger
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 04:56:06 PM
I added another screenshot where I put the other screenshot above,that shows I have the Tongass X TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_ShoemakerBay_boats.BGL that Rod wanted me to check for etc.

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 05:09:18 PM
I saw Holgers reply.

Here is a shot of my vehicles_water BGL Holger referenced.So I guess I have everything I need.Now it's trying to figure out why the boats won't show up at TF-07

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot1998.jpg)

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: stiletto2 on September 03, 2012, 05:51:08 PM
HI GrayRider,

Your vehicles_water.bgl file is fine but you are missing  ......._boats.bgl files in your Tongass_Fjords_Higher_Priority\Scenery folder...........I know Holger said that the same file places the berms and the boats, but I just tested it on my system and when I remove the TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_ShoemakerBay_boats.BGL from my .....\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\FSAddon\Tongass_Fjords\Tongass_Fjords_Higher_Priority\scenery folder and that is exactly what happens....no boats but the berms and docks are there.

Now, you are missing the 3 ...... _boats.bgl files from your Tongass_Fjords_Higher_Priority\Scenery folder (assuming they are in alphabetical order).  You do have a copy of them in the Cache folder (in your picture)....so.....copy (not cut) these 3

TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_Petersburg_boats.BGL
TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_ShoemakerBay_boats.BGL
TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_Sitka_boats.BGL

files from the Cache folder to the .....\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\FSAddon\Tongass_Fjords\Tongass_Fjords_Higher_Priority\scenery folder and then you should see the boats. 

The big question is why did those files disappear from you the scenery folder.....you may have a corrupt Tongass .....

Rod
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: Holger Sandmann on September 03, 2012, 06:01:37 PM
Hi Rod,

doh! Nice catch there, you're 100% correct and I totally forgot that I placed those boats separately from the docks. The reason for this was that, like many default objects, those models can have an fps impact if placed in larger numbers, something that was still a much bigger issue (in regards to hardware) when Tongass X was released three years ago.

In fact, the simple solution to GrayRider's "mystery" is likely to run the Tongass Fjords control panel and activate the "Static boats at Sitka and Petersburg marina" checkbox.

Cheers, Holger
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 03, 2012, 06:16:09 PM
I'm thinking now that the "whole problem" in the first place was that they were deactivated in the control panel all along.  Simply run the control panel as Holger says, and see if the boats appear.  Wouldn't that be funny?
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: stiletto2 on September 03, 2012, 06:30:21 PM
Hi Holger,

Funny, I thought of the option on the panel but dismissed it because it doesn't mention Shoemaker Bay otherwise I would have suggested that possiblity....but now that we have identified the Sitka, Petersburg missing files it all makes sense.....thanks, Holger!   At least it means there is no corruption issue.

GrayRider you will need to run the Configurator to set the option......

TongassFjords FSX.exe   or    TongassFjordsFSXConfig64.exe (if the first one won't work and you have a 64 bit system).

They (or at least one of them) can be found in the main Tongass folder

Rod
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 06:36:36 PM
I'm in the Tongass Fjords control panel.The "Static boats at Sitka and Petersburg marina" are not active.The checkbox is unchecked.When I tic it.What happens to the .BGLs.Are they moved from the Cache area into the Tongass_Fjords_Higher_Priority\scenery folder?.

For the other one,the TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_ShoemakerBay_boats.BGL.I'll copy it and move it to the scenery folder Rod mentioned.I hope this is correct??.

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: stiletto2 on September 03, 2012, 06:39:16 PM
Gray Rider,

Don't move any thing...just check it....it probably moves all three files.

Rod
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 06:59:38 PM
I did tic the Static boats at Sitka and Petersburg marina in the Tongass X Control Panel.

I started my sim.It did not do a data build,as I though it would,since I activated something in the TF control Panel.

I'll report back of the results in a few moments.I'm heading to TF07 to have a look.

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 07:12:58 PM
I just went to TF07.

Still no show of static boats
Here is a screenshot of what I guess is the Tongass X Control Panel.The upper far left box was unchecked.I ticked the box and hit the apply settings and exit.
I have this panel short cutted to the desk top,for use etc.

The three TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_Petersburg_boats.BGL
TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_ShoemakerBay_boats.BGL
TF_FSX_SPBs_and_marinas_Sitka_boats.BGL  files are now showing in the  scenery folder as seen in the screenshot below,that Rod had mentioned.

Still no static boats are showing up at TF07.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot1999.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot2001.jpg)

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: stiletto2 on September 03, 2012, 09:50:59 PM
Hi GrayRider,

Now that you have the box ticked and the extra boat files are all in the scenery folder you need to go into your scenery library delete the Tongass_Fjords_Higher_Priority scenery area.  Then add the Tongass_Fjords_Higher_Priority scenery area back in by browsing to the FSAddon folder.   FSX will put the area on the top of your list.  Just move it back down to just above the low priority area which you left in the scenery library and it should work.

Rod
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 10:09:37 PM
I'm working on it now Rod,following your instructions.

I will report back on what is there at TF07.

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 03, 2012, 10:58:22 PM
Thanks a heap to to Rod,Holger,Jeff and all others involved assiting in my no boats at TF07.

All I can say is Yahoooo!! I have boats.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot2005.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/grayrider/screenshot2004.jpg)

Great support to everyone here at RTMM.It means a lot to me,being a PC dummy.

GrayRider

 
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: stiletto2 on September 03, 2012, 11:03:10 PM
Woo-Hoo!!!!!!  Great news!   

Rod
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 04, 2012, 12:00:00 AM
Yay!   ;D
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: spud on September 04, 2012, 01:27:51 PM
The difficult we do Immediately, miracles take a little time!
 8)
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: GrayRider on September 04, 2012, 05:33:37 PM
Yep on both counts.

Oh boy.I have some other things I'll deen help with,coming down the pike.

GrayRider
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: jeff3163 on September 04, 2012, 08:06:36 PM
Yep on both counts.

Oh boy.I have some other things I'll deen help with,coming down the pike.

GrayRider

Like dyslexia, maybe?  Just an observation.   ;D
Title: Re: Starting Points for Sea Plane Bases
Post by: HighGround on September 04, 2012, 09:11:25 PM
.
Reminds me of that old refrain:
.
"Old MacDonald was dislexic.
Oh-Aye-Oh-Aye-EEE
[/b]"