Author Topic: CIRP Feedback  (Read 481741 times)

Dan

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2011, 08:56:11 AM »
:) cool.   I'll have to verify if that's one of the ones I had issues with.

spud

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2011, 12:08:52 PM »
Disclaimer:  I am just stating my personal opinion with this post because I am not knowledgeable enough about exactly how scenery objects effect FPS. 
Because there are many different objects, scenery wise, at each Ice Station and the Ice Stations are in a very confined area the sim is being forced to load most of the scenery objects into memory even for those objects that may not be used at a particular Ice Station.  This causes the CPU to be somewhat overworked and FPS are affected adversely.  You can observe the result when you disable all CIRP scenery but, for example, PF40 and PF41 in the FSX senery  library.  Fly between just those two bases and the FPS will be higher.
Additionally I'm not sure if having to load an object more than once is done or not.  For instance the smoking barrels at the end of the runways at each station.  Are they only loaded one time into memory or if many bases are turned on do they load multiple times into memory and use up CPU cycles?  I do not know the answer for that one.
PF48 and PF49 are across the valley from the remaining 8 bases PF40-47 but still probably in the same set of tiles as the other bases.  If there are any experts out there who have a definitive answer please feel free to post with your knowledge.
If you disable various parts of CIRP the frame rates do improve so I think the causes could be related to what I have surmised in this post.
Making a Station with the smudge barrels removed will probably show some improvement as would disabling any other object that is used multiple times in a Station scenery.  Hopefully there would be that 'magic bullet' that was the culprit but I think it will be mostly just scenery object overload from the close proximity of the Ice Stations.
As we all are aware FSX was never finished by Microsoft and ACES was fired before it could be completed so it will remain a problem until such time the code can be upgraded to fix the problems which of course means never!


 8)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 12:19:01 PM by spud »
Later,

Spud

Doug

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2011, 03:20:09 PM »
Frame Project

OK, I've started a little "Frame Project" for those interested. Go to the FAQ under F:
http://www.return.mistymoorings.com/faq/#f  You will find some instructions and a zip file there. Only "play" with this if you are experienced ... the file names for the 4 test files are all named identically, so don't get mixed up. One of them is the "original" so you can always put that back in. The instructions are at the link.

If you could check these out and post the frame rates you are seeing here, we'll see if we can get to the bottom of this. A couple of things ... 1. It isn't the "barrel" that's probably causing the problem, but the "smoke" placed in the barrel (so we think the barrel is innocent!) ... but I took out the barrels with the smoke (both) just to avoid confusion. Second, this is only hypothesis about the smoke ... we don't know that's the cause. So if we see no frame rate drops (significant), then we move on and look at another element. Spud could easily be correct also ... we are LOOKING for the answers. If you have an idea, and can give us some data, we'll post it so others can work with it also.

Doug
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 03:22:01 PM by Doug »

frostlp

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2011, 11:13:14 PM »
Now that you mentioned the smoke - something not related - change the simulation rate and check out the smoke - it affects the amount of smoke, too 'specially in the 1/4 to 1/2 range.

jeff3163

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2011, 11:34:02 PM »
I spent some time on this issue this morning.  I copied the contents of the zip to a folder, containing four sub folders.  The names of the folders are a little confusing.  One is called "no smoking barrels, and two are called "no smoke barrels or chimneys" and "no smoke barrels or chimneys (2)".

I went to Summit and set up for testing.  All sliders maxxed, except detail radius set to small, autogen off, clear weather and traffic off.  I used "Bob" for the vehicle.  After doing all this, it occurs to me that the numbers are relative.  Each person will have different setups, machines, etc.  I even have different results at different times.   I started by unloading the station completely and recording the FPS.  I left the "Bob" vehicle sitting where it loads at, and faced the Headquarters building.  I stayed in that position for each test. 

The results were: 
Unloaded - 9.0
No barrels/chimneys - 10.5
No smoking barrels - 8.6
No smoking chimneys - 10.8
Original configuration - 9.5

These numbers are inconclusive however, as turning my view to the left or right in any of the tests would raise the fps, regardless of whether or not smoke was in view.  The view looking up the glacier produces 20 or more fps.  When facing the HQ, the frame rates are lowest (even when Summit is not loaded) I walked forward and placed myself behind the HQ building.  Now with the Summit station behind me (fps still 9.0), I turn around to face the station and uphill glacier.  The frames are now near 20 with the station in view and all effects active.  What I'm trying to say is . . . I'm not sure the ice stations are even to blame.  I got higher frame rates with the station loaded than not, and low frames in one direction only, even with the station unloaded. 

Low frame rates are a part of FSX that I have come to accept as standard over the years.  It's the driving force behind system upgrades.  I don't consider it something to complain about.  I stopped checking my fps rates a while ago.  The system lags are more likely as a result of missing objects or textures that the computer is dealing with, not ones that are working. (like the smoke, barrels, etc.) 

All we can do is make sure we have all the object libraries, textures, and effects that are needed, and defrag regularly.  Make sure you have plenty of free space on your HD for pagefile operation.  And minimize background services. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 11:44:52 PM by jeff3163 »

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Dieter

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2011, 04:16:31 AM »
The test file is a great idea, but...
Prerequisite for a meaningful test is a standardized test situation.
(which should be specified)

My system:
Win 7 home 64 bit
FSX+Acc
i7 CPU 965@3.20 Ghz
Ram 6 GB
Graphic card NVIDIA GTX 295
Screen solution 1920x1200

Position
N56° 10.11'
W130° 3.92'
alt 2923
course 69

Date Nov 12, 2011
Time in FSX : 12:00

Looking through the VC of the standard MS C-172
No weather (clear blue sky)

Results:
Original cirp_summit_ice_station - 14
No Smoke barrels or chimneys - 16
No Smoke barrels or chimneys (2) - 23
No smoking barrels - 21

BTW:
The windsocks have a major impact on the frame rates, too.

Dieter
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 04:18:24 AM by Dieter »

Doug

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2011, 08:58:53 AM »
I won't change the names, but they basically are the elimination of the smoke. First the barrels, then the chimneys, then both plus the original. 

I see the smoke "adding" (and one would expect that) but I don't see it crippling the frame rates.  I think there may be more involved than the smoke.   

Dan reports it goes to "slide show" mode when he approaches ... I don't see that at all and his machine can run circles (blindfolded) around my machine ... so maybe it is something buried in the setup. We have the same "settings" but maybe one of those "hidden" settings with cache, or something?

But what you folks have said here is good information.  Is there anything else you'd like me to try? I can pull the wind sock at Summit easily and we could look at that. I think the comment below of turning in the same place and looking up the glacier with the rates going to 20 was interesting ... what ever causes that seems the best "indicator" we've got.

Dan

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2011, 03:49:30 PM »
One thing that may be different with my setup, I'm running on a Solid State Drive, not a regular HDD.   Pagefiles work a little differently with SSDs.   I wonder if that's my main difference.    Either way, FSX really puts out some crappy framerates, given it was released so long ago and hardware has come a long ways since. :)     I think we're just at the mercy of the unoptimized FSX for the most part.

edit:  For instance, here are some screenshots I just took from Skyrim, just released yesterday (which reminds me of CIRP/RTMM, somewhat, the area :) ).   I can get 60-90 fps with this kind of detail, but only 15ish in FSX..   Just seems very strange.



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[attachment deleted by admin (old)]
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 04:04:16 PM by Dan »

jeff3163

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2011, 04:05:05 PM »
I have been flying around the CIRP area this morning, and checking out some thoughts I had.  I told you I turned around, and the framerates are different depending on which direction I am facing.  Ok, I used that info and flew in the direction of the low framerates, until they rose.  Then take a look around to what is in the area.  I was eventually led to Bowser lake, where something was cutting my rates in half.  I disabled Elliot firebase scenery, and fixed the frame drop.  I continued on in circles and was led back to Stewart.  The icefields do cause a 50% drop in fps for me, but was compounded by  the Elliot scenery.  I unloaded ALL of the CIRP related entries, snow effects, NDBs etc.  I still show markers on my GPS for all the stations.  Also, the runway "snow tracks" for PF40, and probably all others is still showing.  So I have some BGLs that have gotten away from me.  I need to track those down and disable them.  I thought the runway tracks were in the scenery folders of the stations they go to.  Disabling CIRP and Elliot firebase brought my frames up to 80-100, and more consistent during the circling maneuver.  So the method of turning on only the stations you are departing from and heading to, is going to help the low end spec. machines quite a bit.

In conclusion, Elliot Firetower scenery needs looking into.  Could someone else confirm this also.

My C: drive is also an SSD.  It should make performance much better.  SSDs are much faster than regular HDs.  Yes, FSX is a bag of buttholes.  And, I think I enjoy the fight. ;D

The picture is PF40's runway tracks still showing, but all of CIRP is disabled.

[attachment deleted by admin (old)]
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 04:08:59 PM by jeff3163 »

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Dan

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2011, 04:08:39 PM »
My C: drive is also an SSD.  It should make performance much better.  SSDs are much faster than regular HDs.  Yes, FSX is a bag of buttholes.  And, I think I enjoy the fight. ;D
Yeah that's why I replaced my old HDD with a SSD, and it does improve performance in every other instance, which is what makes this even more odd.   FSX is literally the only game that I have framerate issues in, highly frustrating. :)

Siegfried Schulz

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2011, 04:13:09 PM »
Hello Friends !!

First many thanks for your outstanding work !!!

I've found a very small differenz between the 'Reality' and the 'Printet' text :-))
The Position for the 'Cambria East Ice Station':
   ICAO PF42 - NDB Frequency: 242.00 KHz - Rwy 14/32
   Lat: N55 52.02 - Lon: 129 30.00 - Mag: 315 - Alt: 5100 ft (Ice)

It's just a little mistake - typical for 'Copy and Past'

Best wishes
Siegfried

Corrected Lat/Lon datas 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 01:13:58 PM by Siegfried Schulz »

jeff3163

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2011, 06:00:51 PM »
Quote
The picture is PF40's runway tracks still showing, but all of CIRP is disabled.

Photo_CL16_McCleod.BGL has been discovered in the PF30 Victory Valley/scenery folder.  Must have been included in the Victory Valley package accidentally.  (or I stuck it in there for early Beta testing, and forgot it)  Not sure.  It was the only one like that, and is fixed now. 

I'm trying to "turn off" all aspects of CIRP,  but I still have markers on my GPS screen for the ice stations showing.  I can't direct the GPS to a station though (all stations are unloaded).  What file puts the markers on the GPS screen?  (little red circle with PF## tag next to it). 

edit - Rebooting FSX eliminated the GPS markers.  They must've been held in memory.

[attachment deleted by admin (old)]
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 06:14:50 PM by jeff3163 »

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jeff3163

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2011, 06:30:28 PM »
The impact of weather on framerates.

[attachment deleted by admin (old)]

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corbu1

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2011, 08:06:47 AM »
I have been flying around the CIRP area this morning, and checking out some thoughts I had.  I told you I turned around, and the framerates are different depending on which direction I am facing.  Ok, I used that info and flew in the direction of the low framerates, until they rose.  Then take a look around to what is in the area.  I was eventually led to Bowser lake, where something was cutting my rates in half.  I disabled Elliot firebase scenery, and fixed the frame drop.  I continued on in circles and was led back to Stewart.  The icefields do cause a 50% drop in fps for me, but was compounded by  the Elliot scenery.  I unloaded ALL of the CIRP related entries, snow effects, NDBs etc.  I still show markers on my GPS for all the stations.  Also, the runway "snow tracks" for PF40, and probably all others is still showing.  So I have some BGLs that have gotten away from me.  I need to track those down and disable them.  I thought the runway tracks were in the scenery folders of the stations they go to.  Disabling CIRP and Elliot firebase brought my frames up to 80-100, and more consistent during the circling maneuver.  So the method of turning on only the stations you are departing from and heading to, is going to help the low end spec. machines quite a bit.

In conclusion, Elliot Firetower scenery needs looking into.  Could someone else confirm this also.


Jeff,

I did a Flight from Stewart OpsBase to Elliot Fire Base this MOrning with all CIRP Stations activated.
I can not really confirm your observations.

I had a big drop in FPS when flying north from OPsBase (11-15 FPS) till Mt. JOhnson and Mt. Ericson stations.
After passing that aera on heading to Elliot Fire Base I got 19-23FPS.on final approach to Elliot`s helipad I got a short heavy FPS drop ( for 2-3 seconds) to 7-9 FPS. I was on a heading south, looking in driections of CIRP stations, on this final approach.
On flying back to Stewart OpsBase I had nearly constant fps-drops to 9-13 fps till final approach on OpsBase Helipad.
I did touchdown on the helipad with a 270 heading. On this direction I got 20-23 FPS.

I did the Flight with:
Cerasim Bell212 Heli
HTR Helicopter total realsim v1.5
TrackIR5
Ezdok Camera
Real weather settings created by ASE Active Sky Evolution
REX OVerdrive

My laptop is:
i7 820M
4 GB, 2 HDD à 300GB, Raid 0
Win7 64 Ultimate

FPS measured with:
Fraps
Regards from Munich, Germany



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jeff3163

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Re: CIRP Feedback
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2011, 10:46:48 AM »
Thanks Klaus.  I will take a second look at Elliot firebase.

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