Author Topic: Anomalies on the Water  (Read 15650 times)

Doug

  • Misty Moorings Site Admin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,012
    • View Profile
    • Return to Misty Moorings
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2011, 11:54:01 AM »
Jeff ... look at my attached pic below. Same exact coordinates, altitude and heading ... no water spike.  I think we need to talk to Holger about this.  There could be another setting that is bothering us that we need to know about. Obviously my setting is the right one .. but geez ... where would you start to look? 

Note to others ... please take a look and see if you see the water spike Jeff is seeing.  Although this is bad news for Jeff ... it may be trying to tell us something that will help us all.

Doug

[attachment deleted by admin (old)]

jeff3163

  • Misty Moorings Team
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,073
  • Troubleshooting & Help
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2011, 03:33:32 PM »
My water spike problem has been fixed, so I thought I'd post the solution here.  Doug and Holger  reminded me to re-install my Pacific Fjords service pack 1 (after my fsx re-install earlier).  I apparently had overlooked that service pack.  Thanks Doug and Holger.

[attachment deleted by admin (size over 300k)]

Win10Pro64, P3Dv4.1.7.22841, AMD Ryzen7 1800X@4.0 GHz , 32Gb RAM, NVidia GTX 1080 Ti, 1T/1T SSD's for Sims/OS, 3x42" Vizio Monitors, HTC Vive VR HMD, Saitek Yoke/Pedals/trim wheel, XBox360 Controller, G27 steering wheel w/shifter+pedals. :P

Doug

  • Misty Moorings Site Admin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,012
    • View Profile
    • Return to Misty Moorings
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2011, 04:57:49 PM »
Jeff ... it is still an excellent example so people can see why the service pack is so important. Thanks for the pics ... this is something we can refer to in the future.

I put a link to the Service Pack #1 on the top of the scenery page so people will know they have to have that. I had it for "The Cabins" because that was the focus of it, but Holger did a lot of magic with the water anomalies in that pack too.  So people who don't care much about the USFS Cabins could miss that link and its importance. It is problems like this, and their solutions, that make our site better every day ... thank you Jeff.

Doug
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 08:18:05 AM by Doug »

GrayRider

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • I'm an old retired Vet from the USAF.
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2012, 06:24:22 PM »
I'm continuing my problem with water issues,trying to do the Landings boat run.The four screenshots of   water problems I'm seeing were from the start of the Landings at Alastair run.

For the boat run using the plan.I started at Brads BBQ(Skeena 1).Coordinates N54 19.22/W129.13.17 HDG 156.
1)The first area I see a water issue is at the following:
N54 19.22/W129.12.64 HDG 142-Two waterfall rocks are at this point.A water wall appears.
2)N54 18.75/W129.12.44 HDG 97-Here there two more water fall rocks.There's a small water wall I can't go thru,and the water slopes up and down.
3)N54.18.53/W129.12.35 HDG 192-Here the river goes up hill so to speak,and my boat hangs up in spots.
4)N54.17.22/W129.11.71-Here there are two water fall rocks and the guide markers.I can't get thru it or around the problem,with the boat
N54.16.86/W129.11.31 HDG 180-Here there are the two waterfall rocks and the guide markers.It has the same water issue,and the boat gets stuck in it.

Most of the run has a lot of curves/tight curves,or winding the way the river travels.I notice the rest of the way the river slopes a lot in numerous spots.So it's hard to get thru these areas without the boat keeling over so to speak.
It seems to me the river should basicly be flat,so to speak as I'm moving on?.I know when I use the Catamaran sail boat,with sails down,has a hard time getting thru the Sheena 1 river.In the meantime I'm going to try the Cabo Fishing boat and see how that goes.

I guess Doug will have some ideas when he gets back,and maybe do the run,from were I started it etc.

GrayRider
Thermaltake Armor Full Tower, ASRock Z68 Extreme 3 Gen 3, Intel i7 2600K SandyBridge 3.4 GHz - OC to 4.6 GHz, Corsair H70 Hydro CPU cooler, 16 Gigs of GSkill Ripjaw DDR3 - 1600, EVGA GTX570HD, 2500 MB of GDDR 5, 2.5GB, Corsair TX850 P/S, HT Omega 7.1 sound, AData S510 SATA III 120 GB SSD for boot dr

stiletto2

  • Misty Moorings Team
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,497
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2012, 08:17:48 PM »
Hey GrayRider,

Don't know if you realize you have attached to a thread that is a year old.  Since then we now have the know how to flatten water anomalies but all of them in different sceneries may not be attended to yet. 

Which scenery area are you talking about?

Rod

GrayRider

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • I'm an old retired Vet from the USAF.
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2012, 08:35:16 PM »
The Landings (At Alastair Lake).

I was told by Jeff to put the rest of the trip water issues here in the Anomalies section,which is the topic/thread that Doug started.So whe Doug gets back he will see the issues etc.Have a look at the last screenshots I added in the moorings screenshots thread.The shots show.This time I started the same trip at Coordinates N54 19.22/W129.13.17 HDG 156,Skeena 1 entrance to the landings boat run which is Brads BBQ,It made the boat trip shorter.

The water problems are seen when I'm running the boat trip,using the plan in the moorings-on the water plan.

While following the flight plan.When I get to about the last 5 miles or so following the plan.The water is fine,the rest of the way to the landings(At Alastair).

GrayRider
 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 09:00:58 PM by GrayRider »
Thermaltake Armor Full Tower, ASRock Z68 Extreme 3 Gen 3, Intel i7 2600K SandyBridge 3.4 GHz - OC to 4.6 GHz, Corsair H70 Hydro CPU cooler, 16 Gigs of GSkill Ripjaw DDR3 - 1600, EVGA GTX570HD, 2500 MB of GDDR 5, 2.5GB, Corsair TX850 P/S, HT Omega 7.1 sound, AData S510 SATA III 120 GB SSD for boot dr

Doug

  • Misty Moorings Site Admin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,012
    • View Profile
    • Return to Misty Moorings
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2012, 09:09:54 PM »
Hi ...
I don't see an anomaly at that location ... here's a pic of me at that location. Are you sure you've got the NEW version that is at the Scenery Download Page under "The Landings", version 1.1.  Look in your scenery folder and there should be three CVX files in there.  If there are not, then you have the old version. If they are there, then we've got another problem. Thanks.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 09:19:05 PM by Doug »

GrayRider

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • I'm an old retired Vet from the USAF.
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2012, 10:25:04 PM »
Where your at in the screenshot.Brads is fine,at my end.I just indicated the coordinates N54 19.22/W129.13.17 HDG,is were I started the boat run up the Skeena1 river to the landings.The other sets of coorinates mentioned are during the rest of the boat run,moving along to the landings and it has a lot of curves in it.
When I started the flight plan I was using the Catamaran.This sail boat didn't work out so well,due to water issues I was running into.
So.I used the part of the flight,for those using a boat,which starts,where you are in the screenshot.This time I used the Cabo Fishing boat.It worked out better,and did pass some of the water issues,going around them.
I did add screenshots in the moorings-on the water screenshots,that got me thru the boat run.

I'll check my scenery file for the three CVX files your referring to,and report back on my findings etc.

Thanks Doug.

GrayRider

The main part of the of the Landings flight plan,starts,way back at the airport,before getting to where you are in the screenshot etc.
Thermaltake Armor Full Tower, ASRock Z68 Extreme 3 Gen 3, Intel i7 2600K SandyBridge 3.4 GHz - OC to 4.6 GHz, Corsair H70 Hydro CPU cooler, 16 Gigs of GSkill Ripjaw DDR3 - 1600, EVGA GTX570HD, 2500 MB of GDDR 5, 2.5GB, Corsair TX850 P/S, HT Omega 7.1 sound, AData S510 SATA III 120 GB SSD for boot dr

GrayRider

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • I'm an old retired Vet from the USAF.
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2012, 11:01:28 PM »
I have all my scenery's installed into one scenery folder.I'm looking in it now.I have CVX files.What are the CVX files related to?.

If they deal with flatten issues.I have three of those.The name of them is called:

CVX_Landings_Flatten_1
CVX_Landings_Flatten_2
CVX_Landings_Flatten_3

If the above is correct.Are these flatten files for Alastair(Landings) itself?.Do they cover the complete river flight path from start to finish?.

Since I have all to ORBX products added.I'm wondering of the water issues I'm having,is related to boundries,where the different payware packages come together,or merge with one another,where a river might go thru it so the speak.So I'm wondering if any of the RTMM addons sit on boundries,where the ORBX products meet/merge together?.

GrayRider
Thermaltake Armor Full Tower, ASRock Z68 Extreme 3 Gen 3, Intel i7 2600K SandyBridge 3.4 GHz - OC to 4.6 GHz, Corsair H70 Hydro CPU cooler, 16 Gigs of GSkill Ripjaw DDR3 - 1600, EVGA GTX570HD, 2500 MB of GDDR 5, 2.5GB, Corsair TX850 P/S, HT Omega 7.1 sound, AData S510 SATA III 120 GB SSD for boot dr

stiletto2

  • Misty Moorings Team
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,497
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2012, 08:53:52 AM »
Hi GrayRider,

Yes those are the flatten files (assuming you left the .bgl off on purpose)....sounds like you have the right update.  I  just downloaded the scenery and did the run and checked the areas you mentioned....I did not have any water issues and have all the ORBX products.....I do use a powerboat for the river runs (Malibu).  No walls of water....It is possible some other 3rd party elevation mesh could interfere....

Rod

spud

  • Misty Moorings Team
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,029
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2012, 10:10:16 AM »
GreyRider,
as I said previously the river trips are not on completely flat, pristine rivers.  There are small humps and bumps along some of the rivers in the plans just like on real waterways.  In the beginning a 'rapids/waterfall effect was used and still appears in some of the areas of the rivers.  If your looking for smooth calm water then cruising on the lakes would be what you want to do.  The adventures/floatplans will require some work and can I recommend a boat I find that works better than most of the larger craft.
it is the Riva Aquarama here is a link:

http://www.fs-shipyards.org/index.php?ind=downloads&op=section_view&idev=11

get the version by Hama.  Although it says for FS2004 it works in FSX.
It is more manuverable and small enough to get through the tight spots of some river runs.
 8)
Later,

Spud

Doug

  • Misty Moorings Site Admin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,012
    • View Profile
    • Return to Misty Moorings
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2012, 01:54:46 PM »
The anomalies are interesting, they are a "mistake" the computer algorithm makes when trying to 'smooth' a river in an "unsmooth" area.  For instance a river, coming down a mountain ... which is mostly what we deal with. the river at its source is high, at its outfall low. When the river makes turns and comes down in elevation, the algorithm gets a little confused, and hence, you get a wall of water ... or sometimes a pyramid 100 meters high!  You rarely see these from the air, but down on the water, they are a real problem.

At first, we covered them with rocks and mists ... but they were still very difficult to maneuver. Wilson Riiver is an example of that. So I had to learn how to deal with the flattens (thanks to Rod Jackson). I was then able to "smooth" many of these "errors" and make the waterways passable for boat traffic. So I have gone back to many of our river runs, including The Landings and have put "sloped polygons" there to replace the water errors.

The "problem" with these for the designer, is that only the scenery developer knows there is a flatten there (if it is done correctly). I couldn't even find some of my own.  So I started marking them.  You will go by a totem pole now and then on a river ... look closer ... that is where a flatten starts or ends. The number of bushes at its base gives you the CVX Number CVX#2 that you'll find in your scenery folder. The bushes are on the side of the totem pole where the flatten is.  So if you see a totem pole with 2 bushes and they are beyond the totem pole, you are going into a flattened area. If the bushes are before the marker, you are leaving a flattened area. So for those who "know" this ... if they see a problem on a river, they can say, "Hey Doug, I'm seeing a problem with CVX 3 on the Wilson River" ... and I'll know exactly where the problem is, can pull up the "work" file for it and adjust the polygon.  Now you are learning all my secrets!!! :-)

Below is CVX2 that you will find at The Landings.  I also included the "polygon" that lets you kind of see how it is done. Each of those points along the edge of the polygon represent a shoreline or where the polygon starts or ends in the river. In this case, the depth difference was 6 feet, giving us two impassable walls of water of about 3 feet each.  The points along the edge of the polygon gradually increase in altitude (all in meters) to the one before it ... so you literally get a river that is sloped. Your boat is going "up" 6 feet there, but you barely notice it.

The most difficult one height wise was at the headwaters of the Sheemahant River ... there was a 12 foot difference between the lake there and the river. I had to make a polygon that went up 12 feet in less than 100 meters ... LOTS of curves, and there are probably 100 points in the polygon's outer edges, each with a specific altitude.  But the user, simply "drives" over that area in about 2 minutes and barely notices s/he is going "up".

  • Example:  "Uncheck Owikeno Lake" in your scenery library ... then go to N51 50.96 W126 6.06 heading 345. You will see the above-mentioned "wall".  "Save" that location and then END FLIGHT and go back to the scenery library and recheck Owikeno Lake. Then go to the saved flight so you'll be at the exact same place. Kind of a difference, huh?  That's what we've learned to do with these problems. This same example gives you and idea of what we are doing with the riverscaping. Back up a little and raise altitude and look at that final stretch to the lake ... then reclick Owikeno Lake and take a look at the difference.

We've left a few rocks and mists in there on purpose, because that's the way those rivers really are ... they are not lakes. When you think that the Sheemahant rises 130 meters over 30 miles, you are talking about a significant altitude differential that you have to make "passable". At Owikeno Lake, the lake is 7 feet higher than any of its rivers coming into it. we use almost all of the rivers there, so slopers had to be placed at the outfall of each river.

Watch for the totem poles along the rivers ... that's your clue.

Doug
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 02:38:39 PM by Doug »

GrayRider

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • I'm an old retired Vet from the USAF.
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2012, 04:00:10 PM »
Thanks Doug.

That is good reading,and how,this all tic's.Al the totam poles are there,throughout my last run up the skeena to the landings.

In the last set of screenshots I added.I put in the moorings-on the water screenshots thread.Some of my shots have the totem poles in the shots.

I'll go have another look,throughout the run.I'll find the water walls I was seeing,and write down the coorinates,where I see it.I'll probably take a screenshot of it as well.

Thanks for the info Doug.

GrayRider
Thermaltake Armor Full Tower, ASRock Z68 Extreme 3 Gen 3, Intel i7 2600K SandyBridge 3.4 GHz - OC to 4.6 GHz, Corsair H70 Hydro CPU cooler, 16 Gigs of GSkill Ripjaw DDR3 - 1600, EVGA GTX570HD, 2500 MB of GDDR 5, 2.5GB, Corsair TX850 P/S, HT Omega 7.1 sound, AData S510 SATA III 120 GB SSD for boot dr

stiletto2

  • Misty Moorings Team
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,497
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2012, 04:05:38 PM »
Hi Doug,

Welcome Back!   Good explanation.  I also want to make sure we give proper credit to Xavier who initially gave us the first tutorial on doing flattens.  Thanks, Xavier (Fishbone)!

GrayRider,

Does your CVX2 area look like Doug's picture.  If not can you post your own picture of what it looks like for you.  Also, a quick question on this statment that you made:

"I have all my scenery's installed into one scenery folder"

I assume you don't mean that you have taken all of the scenery placement files out of their various scenery folders and put them in one Scenery folder.......I am assuming you have a separate library entry in your FSX Scenery Library for "The Landings at Alastair Lake" which you can enable or disable.....is that correct?

Rod


GrayRider

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • I'm an old retired Vet from the USAF.
    • View Profile
Re: Anomalies on the Water
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2012, 04:51:30 PM »
Hi Doug,

Welcome Back!   Good explanation.  I also want to make sure we give proper credit to Xavier who initially gave us the first tutorial on doing flattens.  Thanks, Xavier (Fishbone)!

GrayRider,

Does your CVX2 area look like Doug's picture.  If not can you post your own picture of what it looks like for you.  Also, a quick question on this statment that you made:

"I have all my scenery's installed into one scenery folder"

I assume you don't mean that you have taken all of the scenery placement files out of their various scenery folders and put them in one Scenery folder.......I am assuming you have a separate library entry in your FSX Scenery Library for "The Landings at Alastair Lake" which you can enable or disable.....is that correct?

Rod

Stiletto

Can you take a look at my last set of screenshots.The set of shots are here in the moorings-on the water screenshots thread.A few of the totum poles are in the shots.I'm not sure which one's they are,as far as CVX 1.2 or 3.I plan on doing the run again anyway.

Back when I was getting started using RTMM addons.I did put all my secenery's placement files into one RTMM scenery folder.I've added 20 RTMM scenery's,maybe a few more.The way I've done it.It does work.If an update comes out for any one scenery.I add the scenery .bgl's into my single RTMM scenery,and overwrite if necessay,or if it asks.
I just continued,with the way I'm doing it.When I go to any of the RTMM scenery's in the sim.Everything is there as it should be.
if you look at all the screenshots I've posted of different places.All those scenery's BGL's are in one single RTMM scenery folder.I can disable a scenery if I have to from the one single RTMM scenery folder I have.

I think Doug and maybe Spud asked me about this.His question was about if an update to a scenery,would overwrite the old BGL,since I have all the scenery BGL's in one RTMM scenery folder.It does overwrite,and it works.
It's a crud way of doing it,but it does work.

I do not have a separate library entry for each scenery.If a new scenery comes out.I'll add the new scenery BGL's into my single RTMM Scenery/scenery folder.When I start my FSX,it does the the data build.I then go check the scenery addon,and presto it's all there.

The only other single RTMM folder I have is the RTMM Objects Folder.The different objects folders are inside the single main RTMM Objects Folder.Each of the objects folders are activated in my FSX Library.
I only have one RTMM scenery folder activated in the FSX library.It works

GrayRider


 
 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 04:58:30 PM by GrayRider »
Thermaltake Armor Full Tower, ASRock Z68 Extreme 3 Gen 3, Intel i7 2600K SandyBridge 3.4 GHz - OC to 4.6 GHz, Corsair H70 Hydro CPU cooler, 16 Gigs of GSkill Ripjaw DDR3 - 1600, EVGA GTX570HD, 2500 MB of GDDR 5, 2.5GB, Corsair TX850 P/S, HT Omega 7.1 sound, AData S510 SATA III 120 GB SSD for boot dr