Author Topic: Flying to and from: share your experience  (Read 232 times)

Walter.Beech

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Flying to and from: share your experience
« on: January 21, 2019, 08:57:59 AM »
Hello there, fellow bush pilots!

I decided to start this thread to share some thoughts and observations and to ask you to share yours. Because looking through the MFC tours and aircraft I don't feel entirely confident about how to do this or that.

Now, I understand this is just a sim and nobody's life or health or property is at stake, but since we (or I at least) aspire to reach the maximum realism possible, I tried to look at flying from this point of view: how would I do it, if it was for real? And if I'd do it at all.

To start with, there is Aero Commander 500 in the aircraft list. I tried the Carenado model which I happen to own and here is what I saw.

1. In ISA conditions, it cannot climb on one engine at MTOW. In Misty's Place, facing upslope terrain on both climb paths this can be pretty deadly. So toss off some payload or unload some fuel.

2. In ISA conditions and calm winds, your V1 is going to be around 60-65. But the thing is, while you can make aborted takeoffs, you cannot really make accelerate-goes very well, because of the field length and poor single engine performance.

3. If you face an emergency after V1, consider aborting anyway. There are ditches beyond both ends of the runway, and then upslopes. But it is better to hit those hills when you're almost stopped than to hit them when you have almost enough energy to climb out.

So these are things I brought out for myself from yesterday's flying experiments. What do you say? I would like to hear opinions of more experienced bush flyers.

Another question is, how you guys even taxi around a DC-3 there at PF20? It's so cramped that I'm afraid to destroy the whole place with her long wings just on a taxi out  ;D
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 09:01:39 AM by Walter.Beech »

jeff3163

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Re: Flying to and from: share your experience
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2019, 08:22:53 PM »
     I'm thinking, ... why would you ever go to PF20 in a DC-3 size plane?  (in real life)  I'd probably go to PAKT and drive to Misty's.  Misty's Place is a small strip, for single engine planes.   ;)

     ... and what if two DC-3's showed up at the same time.  Where would they park?   :-\
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 08:24:52 PM by jeff3163 »

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av8erjm

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Re: Flying to and from: share your experience
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2019, 10:36:07 PM »
 HMMMM, Jeff they say the mind is the first thing to go, well or maybe the second, but I digress, don't you remember taking the 3 into PF20 on the MFC 0006, to finish, that was a nail biter, Pepperidge Farms remembers LOL

edit, was that real life or reel life you were relating, not sure about whether a typo or not

« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 10:39:11 PM by av8erjm »

nbrich1

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Re: Flying to and from: share your experience
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2019, 10:57:27 PM »
Speaking of a DC3/C4-7 at Misty's. (Good memory Jim..lol.). It's doable but one always has to watch for any restricted clearances. That is part of a pilot's SOP at any airport! (and note: there is no restricted clearance signs at PF20 but there is enough room to navigate one DC3/C47 on the ground if you know how to handle)
Just maybe we can convince an avatar to leave Misty's Bar to act as a marshaller/flagman and/or spotter!).

Tip: Try practicing on a bigger field or a parking area to turn or spin a DC3/C47 aircraft on the ground using the DC3/C47 engines independently of one another. When you can spin the aircraft on almost a dime then try that DC3/C-47 at Misty's. It is doable on the ground but that leaves the next big challenge which is being able to generate enough speed fast enough to be able to climb out the hole on the short runway and clearing the obstactles at either end of the runway!! (But there is a process for short field take offs too in a DC3/C47 as well as short field landings). Misty's is a tough one spot for a bigger aircraft but it is doable!

PS: No pressure but when you get down to tour MFC0006 Short Fields Glacier Region as Jim has mentioned: Leg 01 of that excursion starts at PF20 using a DC3, C-47 or BT67 aircraft and the last leg (leg 18) calls for Misty's as the final stop of that tour. (I still have fun trying to get the C47 down and stopped in time: approach 69kts (1 kt above stall speed) flaps 2, nose down to avoid any lift and hope for a strong head wind as the wheels touch down!! lol

A couple of fun vids on short fields:

Take off -


Landing -



« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 11:01:57 PM by nbrich1 »
Regards from Toronto, Canada - Misty Flying Club

av8erjm

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Re: Flying to and from: share your experience
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2019, 11:17:59 PM »
Misty's was  tuff enuff, but the one that had me doing button holes was PAWL Wood Lake Research that so far was the toughest landing of all of them, so far
 

Walter.Beech

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Re: Flying to and from: share your experience
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 04:56:20 AM »
approach 69kts (1 kt above stall speed) flaps 2
See, Norm, that what troubles me most. I'm sure it's most likely doable, I've landed DC-3 in pretty cramped places, but not that cramped! What if a gust comes up and robs you of 5 kts when you're 1 knot above stall? What if an engine fails? I understand that this is not a problem in the sim, but I believe in real life flying these concerns would be major show-stoppers, wouldn't they?

BTW, why flaps 2, not full?

PAWL Wood Lake Research that so far was the toughest landing of all of them, so far
Challenge accepted  ;D

Walter.Beech

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Re: Flying to and from: share your experience
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2019, 05:00:03 AM »
why would you ever go to PF20 in a DC-3 size plane?  (in real life)  I'd probably go to PAKT and drive to Misty's.
Exactly! 'xactly!  ;D It was just because several MFC tours called for that. But now, when Norm explained that with the Cigar Box you don't have to fly the same aircraft for all the legs the question is not as relevant as before.

nbrich1

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Re: Flying to and from: share your experience
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2019, 09:43:15 AM »
Hopefully no one is at all troubled going forward. Of course it is always your choice what you want to fly and how, as long as it is not a tube!!, but other than that and obtaining and landing at a rate of -600fpm or under- fly as you please.

Many here are helicopter pilots (and experts at it) so they fly their crafts- and short fields don't bother them in the least. Some can't/don't fly a multi but prefer a smaller single engine prop.
But I will try any and try to learn their numbers and how to fly them: Once I learned how to fly the C-47, (and still learning), well it's one of my fav aircraft.

So for me personally, a fixed winger guy, there would be no point of changing the aircraft from a DC3/C47 in a Short fields DC3/C47 tour to a cub or 172 or 185 or ultra lite or some other small airplane when your flying a specifically created DC3/C47 tour: that kinda of defeats the entire challenge or purpose of learning how to handle a DC3 or C47 on short fields but to each their own. 

Hopefully all might understand that my goal is to attempt to create an interesting environment: An organized method of exploration in the ruggedness of the landscapes, creating a way to be able to hone in and explore these scenery pieces and add-ons. Operationally trying to create some very interesting flying routes as well as a variety of challenging aircraft operations in this scenery area: All in a relaxed VA type environment.

Norm
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 12:39:07 PM by nbrich1 »
Regards from Toronto, Canada - Misty Flying Club

Walter.Beech

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Re: Flying to and from: share your experience
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2019, 11:39:16 AM »
Norm,

I didn't mean to be offensive. I perfectly understand your point and reasoning. I actually wanted to spawn a discussion in a bit different way, but I feel nothing wrong about taking a challenge of flying the whole short-field tour on a DC-3. Moreover, I will definitely try to fly a DC-3 through all the legs. After all, this is that kind of freedom that a simulator gives us: I will never possibly fly a real DC-3, not to mention flying it into Alaskan short fields. But thanks to the sim and RTMM+MFC, I can try that. It is just very good that, thanks to the Cigar Box features, we have a choice.

What you have done here is fantastic. The whole RTMM+MFC idea re-creates in the sim that spirit of flying wild Alaska that many of us can only dream about. And it's a very friendly and amicable community, too.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 11:42:00 AM by Walter.Beech »

nbrich1

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Re: Flying to and from: share your experience
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 12:14:58 PM »
A nice summary and no offense taken. Yes, we might never get to fly aircraft up in Alaska but hopefully all here, no matter what experience level, will enjoy the various aspects and are able try different things in our flight simming hobby environment.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 01:19:11 PM by nbrich1 »
Regards from Toronto, Canada - Misty Flying Club

Stearmandriver

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Re: Flying to and from: share your experience
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2019, 12:21:54 AM »
There are definitely places in the world where folks are flying multi-engine aircraft in commercial service to strips that don't provide accelerate-stop and accelerate-go protections.  I'm not saying I'd do this in real life, but it's a fun challenge in the sim and it is halfway realistic, because there are places where it happens.  I'm sure some military C47s saw fields as challenging as Misty's!

Check out these videos: they're clips of takeoffs and landings in the mountain and jungle bush strips of Papua New Guinea in Twin Otters.  Hard core. A V1 cut would not work out so well.
https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/80474-flying-the-kokoda-track/

The ORBX renditions of these PNG strips are amazingly beautiful, and challenging.  I'm running an Air Hauler 2 company out of Kokoda and Port Moresby to these strips now in Beavers, emulating the flying in this memoir... whole different world.
https://www.amazon.com/Flying-Knife-Edge-Guinea-Pilot/dp/988140360X/ref=asc_df_988140360X/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312174369544&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2086510698369621292&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033455&hvtargid=pla-571063337676&psc=1

But Alaska is my first love and I'll be opening a company out of Misty's soon!   ;)