Author Topic: Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?  (Read 182 times)

bawheeler

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Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?
« on: November 06, 2018, 12:48:50 AM »
Before I realized the Misty Flying Club existed (THANK YOU!), I had been diligently flying my routes from the RTMM table and missed the announcement until I happened to glance at the home page and forums last month. Now that I have a few MFC flights under my belt, I am wondering if you have considered adding a new link in the RTMM GO TO table that would allow us to place a bid on any flight in the table and have that contribute towards our MFC hours? Brian
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nbrich1

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Re: Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2018, 08:39:49 PM »
Yes you are a little tardy getting here Brian!!!lol. Like where have you been..lol. j/k.. but all good sir. There is lots of new info here concerning the RTMM Flight plans, the GO TO Table and MFC.

We can't link the RTMM GO TO webpage to the MFC VA Systems. They are on completely different platforms and work totally different from one another but that exact GO TO Table information was used to create the current versions of the RTMM Flight plans which include the corresponding MFC system flight numbers for use in the MFC system.

We defined/built every RTMM location into the MFC Airport database and then with all the locations defined have defined/created MFC system flight plans in the MFC Flight database which match the RTMM Flight plans that are found on the Here to There and they match and are in sequence as per the GO TO Table, (with the exception of the Hawaii locations and the BWEP locations) but the rest of the routes as indicated on the GO TO table are in sync with the new RTMM Flight plans format and the MFC system flight plans/schedules. 

Again true that we can't link the RTMM webpage to the MFC VA Systems but what might be helpful for you is if the GO TO Table also contained the corresponding MFC Flight number for each route/flight as does the updated RTMM Flight plans (and they perfectly match the flights built on the MFC system).

Might want to download the latest RTMM Flight plans and take a look at them if you haven't yet done so. Again, these FP are built directly from the GO TO Table and each RTMM FP includes the corresponding MFC flight number or schedule.

The RTMM flight plans zip file containing almost 700 flight plans and a summary document is downloadable from the Here to There Page and that page also contains updated information as to the updates concerning the RTMM Flight plans and the GO TO Table.  http://return.mistymoorings.com/here_to_there/#plans

If it might help, perhaps we can take look at adding another column on the GO TO Table to be able to display the corresponding MFC flight number for each route/flight entry on that table similar to the updated RTMM flight plans. Not sure if there is room to do that on the GO TO table or on that web page but will investigate.

Norm
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 07:21:22 PM by nbrich1 »

bawheeler

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Re: Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2018, 10:09:40 PM »
Norm - That sounds great and makes perfect sense. So I am currently flying one of those RTMM flight plans as an MFC flight. I was able to find it in the MFC schedules and I loaded the corresponding RTMM flight plan in the simulator.

I guess what I am looking for is the most efficient way to start with something on the GO TO Table in RTMM, load the flight plan, bid on it in MFC, load it in Cigar Box, and takeoff. Do I just manually search the departure airports in the MFC flight schedules to find the matching flight? Even if you had the MFC flight number in the RTMM table, wouldn't I still have to find it and bid on it on the MFC website first or is the bidding process optional?

Brian
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nbrich1

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Re: Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 11:02:35 AM »
Well ok.. lets go through this so all might know exactly how it works and where to find information. 

So firstly some background info. (Part 1)

There are three types of flight systems at MFC: Tour System, Flight Schedules and Routes, and the Charter flight system within Cigar Box.
 
1) Tour System: A tour is made up of a set of specifically designed embedded flight legs and can only be accessed and generated from inside each specific tour. Each leg is gnerated by bid only and must be flown in sequence. Flight leg progresses one leg at a time and following legs are not made available until the proceeding leg has been completed. When all the legs of a said tour have been flown by a pilot then for that pilot that tour is complete. (And award issued for his/her completion). 

2) Flight Schedules and Routes: These flights make up all of the single scheduled flight plans that can be flown at MFC and directly correspond to the RTMM Flight plans* (and the GO TO Table). (These flight plans when extracts from the RTMM Flight plans. ziop file are in .pln format can be used for the loading direct into a simuulator and/or various moving map type apps or flight planners. (File RTMM Flight plans.zip file that is downloadable from the RTMM Here to there page
LINK: http://return.mistymoorings.com/here_to_there/#plans

2b) Additionally I built flight schedules or routes which are representative of the routes covered by the tour legs but can be flown at any time as single flights. These are not associated with the tour system flight legs in any way other than the routes..

The single flight schedules for RTMM Flights at MFC have flight numbers - MFC0001A through MFC0683A.

The single flight schedules for routes covered by the tours at MFC currently have flight numbers MFC T00001-6Ax through MFC T0000301-6Ax. (For each tour built, I also build corresponding single flight schedules that can be flown at any time. Again, these flight schedules cover the routes outlined by a specific tour but are totally separate from the actual tour legs that are generated within a said tour.

3) Separate again from the MFC Tour System or MFC Flight Schedules and Routes, is the Charter flight system found within the Cigar Box module itself. This can be used for a user to create their own custom flights from departure location to destination via a defined route with a specified aircraft. Freeform so you can create your own custom flights. (But Cigar Box does keep track of everything and locations in the pirep or log of the flight.
   
(*Now since this is RTMM-MFC land, we limit this charter option use to areas covered by RTMM: which translates to the locations BC, Alaska, Yukon (and vicinity), as well as Doug's EFMM area which covers the Hawaiian Islands.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 11:18:04 AM by nbrich1 »

nbrich1

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Re: Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 12:27:31 PM »
(Part 2) - A brief how-to.

So these are the MFC single flight schedules that were defined by the routes in the RTMM Flight plans that RTMM initially created then later summarized in the GO TO Table. At MFC we used these same routes/flight plans to define all the MFC system Flight Schedules for VA recording purposes but in conjunction with the RTMM flight plans to be able to fly the routes of the RTMM flight plans and make them capturable in the MFC VA world.

From the previous post here, we are talking about Item 2) Flight Schedules and Routes.

The routes shown RTMM Flight plans correspond to the GO TO Table and also make reference to the assigned MFC flight number used at MFC to fly/record these flights.

2) Flight Schedules and Routes: Detail

If you examine the RTMM Flight plans, note that each FP has the same format as the GO TO Table. They are named specifying the Destination location named first followed by the Departure location. As well note that on the extreme right of each of those RTMM Flight plans is the corresponding MFC Flight Number.

That corresponding MFC Flight Number is used at MFC to find/bid/load that flight in the MFC systems and fly it and once flown, the flight log or pirep report of that flight is recorded and all pireps and it's componenets are tabled to create your own pilot's record including the flight tally (=1), the Flight number, the Departure, the destination location, aircraft used, flight duration, landing rate, fuel used, date/time flown etc). So you have a record of all the flights flown. 

There are many ways to organize yourself on how you want to fly the material. Either from the GO TO TABLE info then finding the corresponding RTMM Flight plan that contains the corresponding MFC Flight number, that you fly at MFC. Or a pilot can find a flight from the RTMM Flight plans or even the RTMM flight plans listing document that is packaged within the RTMM Flight plans. That document contains all of the info from the GO Table and all the componenets of the flight plans as well as the MFC Flight number.

Alternatively one can also work through the schedules at MFC which is accessed via the Pilot Center tab > Flight Operations > View Flight Schedules - and for the route, utilize the corresponding RTMM Flight plan in the sim and/or the GO TO Table Map link.

So information is found in combination of the GO TO Table and RTMM Flight plans and MFC system and hopefully compliments each. 

Variation 1:
Myself, I usually fly the single schedules at MFC by using the RTMM Flight plans "in numerical order" as my schedule to fly the scheduled flights. I started at flight number MFC0001A and now am up to MFC180A. (Still almost 500 single scheduled flights to go).

So in my case I just note the MFC Flight number associated to that RTMM Flight plan, and either bid or direct enter that flight number into Cigar Box. Fly/File when done. I use the GO TO Table for that flight plan map and any other info given on the GO TO Table pertaining to that flight.

The MFC logbook in Cigar Box or a quick view of my pireps on the MFC site (Pilot Center) keep tracks of my flights flown and last completed so there is no guess work where I left off and what is next to be flown.

Ok. Let's use another example specfic to yourself:

Variation 2:

Brian is using the GO TO Table to fly his flights: and finds a flight that you want to fly. (Which is a mirror image in table format of the all RTMM Flight Plans.)

You want to fly a flight which might be IE: Serpenthead Lake Cabin-W from Burwash CYDB, You see it in the GO TO Table or searched for it under Burwash or Serpenthead. 

So in your RTMM Flight plans folder- scroll to or use hotkey  S > and one can see Serpenthead Lake Cabin and you can see that the flight plan is shown as:
Serpenthead Lake Cabin (SERP) from Burwash (CYBD)-4300-L-W-------------------------- MFC0541A.pln     (This is also referenced in the RTMM Flight Listings document)
Note that the MFC flight number for this RTMM Flight Plan is shown as MFC0541A.

At MFC, you can load a bid for that exact flight by going to Pilot Center > and under Flight operations select > View Flight Schedules. select>Find flights. Scroll down to flight MFC0541A and you see:
---------------------------------------------------------------
MFC0541A (CYDB - SERP)                                                          View Details
Departure: 06:00         Arrival: 06:30                                         Pilot Brief 
Equipment: DHC2 BEAVERA (N001MM) Distance: 28.5nm             Add to Bid
Days Flown: Su M T W Th F S
Route: See RTMM FP for this Flight#.
Notes: See RTMM FP for this Flight#.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Then click on "Add to bid". Now the bid has been created for that specfic flight and in Cigar Box that flight and its parameters will directly upload into Cigar Box.  (Alternatively, or you could also enter flight number MFC0541A direct into Cigar Box and it will load when entered. *(This requires a change setting in Cigar Box - Tick box to Search by flight number if using direct flight number entry).)

And you load/fly/file that flight. Either way it works so you load up your Sim, Cigar Box - fly- and file. Done. Then the next flight or another flight route in the same manner and so forth. 

Now as you work off the GO TO Table to plan your flights you have the extra step of finding out the MFC Flight number by searching the RTMM Flight plans. Now if we can updated or populate the GO TO Table with the MFC Flight numbers than would be more expedient for reference.

The RTMM flight plans themselves provide an natural ordered sequence with the alphabetical naming as well provide the MFC numbered order. (The RTMM Flight plans is a version of the GO TO Table and sequenced the same) (with exception of the Hawaii references which do not have accompanying flight plans (but there will be a Hawaii tour later).

One can fly the flight plans and/or MFC flight schedules in order or not, and the GO To table is a great reference for each route for the scenery area used and route specific with map links, and it matches the RTMM Flight plans which add the associated MFC flight so that together creates a very usable system for finding/flying/recording/documenting all the flights made. (But note: It is just a tad harder to keep track of flights that are not flown/filed in any type of sequence). But pilot choice. 

Many ways to slice this stuff but it works together very well together to create a VA flying experience in this  land of RTMM scenery area.

Hope this is clearer than mud..lol..
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 12:51:02 PM by nbrich1 »

bawheeler

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Re: Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 10:53:01 PM »
Norm - This is super helpful, and I know I won't be the only one to benefit from your thoughtful explanation. 

I found a problem which in part led to my frustration... there is another RTMM page referencing an OLD flight plans file with a similar file name.  I have always downloaded it from here: http://return.mistymoorings.com/here2there_table/index.php#instructions

In that file:
http://return.mistymoorings.com/here_to_there/zips/RTMM%20Flight%20Plans.zip

1) it doesn't include 'Serpenthead Lake Cabin (SERP) from Burwash (CYBD)-4300-L-W'; 2) none of the file names have the numbers like in your example; and 3) it has a total of only 607 files in the zip!

The file names are very close, but no 'Cigar Box' in my case!

Brian

P.S. OLD flight plans also linked on this page: http://return.mistymoorings.com/cabins/index.php#install
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 11:46:44 PM by bawheeler »
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nbrich1

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Re: Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 05:47:50 AM »
Ok Brian and thank-you: We did a lot of explaining, hopefully helpful for all but now the real problem has been identified. You got a NEW set of the OLD RTMM Flight plans!! 

Indeed the older RTMM flight plan zip file is missing quite a few flight routes that are shown on the updated GO TO Table and those old FP also didn't include the MFC Flight number. Now the confusion and.or frustration makes perfect sense as you had no method to see the connections or association from the updated GO TO Table and (OLD) RTMM Flight Plans to be able to see the corresponding MFC flight numbers and were manually trying to figure out what was which or which was what at MFC. Oh man! Arg. Sorry about that!!.

Ok Brian, have made notes and we'll update those other RTMM flight plans links on those other pages asap to all point to the latest/updated RTMM Flight plans file that is on the Here to there page so all links will be  up to date and will point to the updated file. 

Haven't got to it yet but to close the loop on this entire subject it would still be advantageous to have the MFC Flight number displayed on the GO TO Table routes. Then the GO TO Table by itself and at a glance, as do the RTMM Flight plans, would make direct association to the corresponding flight at MFC and vice versa.

A long exchange indeed but very helpful all around. Thank-you again sir.

Norm
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 06:19:14 AM by nbrich1 »

nbrich1

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Re: Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 09:23:08 PM »
Ok Brian, Doug came up with a plan on the GO TO Table to simply replace an existing column with the corresponding MFC Flight plan. (Thanks Doug).  It will take a bit to get them all done in the GO TO Table but over time will.  The GO To Table will something like the following:

Going to           From or Waypoint         ORBX          MFC #         NM      Map/TripTics/Downloads
Adams Inlet Cabin        Gustavus PAGS            SAK          MFC0001A       25          Map- (Misty Gustavus)
Admiralty Cove USFS-W  Juneau PAJN-T            SAK          MFC0002A       13          Map-
Aiken Creek-W                Misty's Place PF20 D/W    PFJ          MFC0003A       26          Map-TripTic
Aishihik Lk N Cabin-W    Haines Junction CYHT    SAC          MFC0004A        3          (Cabins by the Lakes II)
Aishihik Lk S Cabin-W    Haines Junction CYHT    SAC          MFC0005A        2          (Cabins by the Lakes II)

(The routes for Hawaii will be left on this table but will not have a corresponding MFC Flight number - will be left blank), but there will be a EFMM Hawaii tour or excursion down the road that will include a complete set of flight plans that will cover every EFMM locations/waypoints.

Norm
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 07:59:19 AM by nbrich1 »

bawheeler

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Re: Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2018, 10:14:27 PM »
Thank you Doug and Norm, this is going to make it much easier to load a flight and I bet will encourage people to join the club.  Brian
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nbrich1

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Re: Have we considered connecting GO TO Table to MFC?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2018, 01:41:05 PM »
Yup will be easier for users of the GO table for their planning and selection as it will contain the corresponding MFC Flighst#. Not exactly convinced that it will be an encouragement for pilots to actually join or fly MFC as most pilots actually prefer fly the tours/excursions and not so much the single flights but if/when they do, the RTMM Flight plans already had the corresponding MFC Flight numbers on each but hey we'll see if the updated GO Table helps.

(I fly both the tours as well as the RTMM single type flights: so far have flown the first 180 RTMM Flight plans (in sequence). So still have almost 500 more of those RTMM single flights still to fly!! lol. That will take a while but in those flights there are many very intricate and interesting routes to fly as well as many RTMM add-on scenery locations still to explore so will continue to fly these as well as the tour legs). (And will provide more routes and areas to use in the excursions.

Norm