Author Topic: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...  (Read 486 times)

Jocko Flocko

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TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« on: May 24, 2018, 02:09:35 PM »
Hey guys, first of all I have a brand new fresh install of P3D 4.2 with only my OrbX regions installed. I get *ZERO* stutter or pauses in any of the OrbX regions and/or airports, just the usual slight FPS hit when flying over dense downtown areas like Portland and Seattle (about 26fps with a locked framerate of 33) (all sliders on ultra) My computer is brand new, just built it by copying the system specs off the top of the line Jetline System and saved about a 800$. After a fresh install of Tongass Fjords I installed the "TFX SimObjects AI Update for P3Dv4 V1.1 8-7-17.zip" via the instructions. I have yet to install *ANY* RTMM scenery or other AI addon files. It's just a vanilla TFX install by following the guide over on Avsim. 

Do any of you have an idea what might be causing these pauses when moving my head either inside the cockpit or outside? I am using track IR as my head tracking hardware. Any input would be appreciated as it's kind of annoying. I'm thinking there might be a file or two that is not up to the latest version of P3D v4.2's "standard"? I never saw this issue in P3D v3.4... :/

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stiletto2

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 11:43:12 AM »
Welcome, Jocko Flocko!

Hmmm.....The AI changes brought the FS9 based aircraft AI up to FSX level.   All versions of P3D support FSX models so that should not be the problem.   

Here is one thing to check:  TFX introduces a lot of AI into its scenery area.   ORBX is not big on Boat/Ship/Aircraft AI so that is one major change that occurs when you install TFX.   Have you checked to see if the problem persists after you turn the various AI sliders down or to off?

The other thing to keep in mind is that when TFX was built it used many FS9 things that P3Dv4 no longer supports.   Since FSAddon was not able to upgrade TFX with a P3D installer,  there are potential problems with the manual install since TFX was not ever certified to run in P3D let alone P3Dv4.2.   That said, it has been working pretty well for our P3DV4+ users.   

There are still some FS9 models that are being used with TFX but they seem to run okay in P3DV4.X conditions.  However, right now your are a perfect test ground for overhead/issues that TFX might add.  Most of us don't pay attention to stutters now and then, but when you have the system in new form running perfectly smooth with the state of the art ORBX installation, an older piece of software could introduce some anomalies.

Let us know what you discover when adjusting AI settings.

Rod

 

Jocko Flocko

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2018, 03:41:44 PM »
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my issue, it's really appreciated.

I thought the exact same thing (AI aircraft, boats, etc) when the pauses started, and these are more like pauses than stutters because my GPU actually throttles back for a few milliseconds, but this is taking place with *ALL* AI traffic turned off... I am wondering if this might have something to do with an incompatible model somewhere in the area.

What I'm planning on doing is one by one moving, or renaming to .OFF, scenery files to see when the issue goes away. This will at least narrow it down to something that can be temporarily disabled or fixed in the future. I really have no idea why this absolutely AMAZING scenery couldn't be brought up to "P3D v4 standards" as there's good money to be made by re-selling it as a P3D version. Without Tongass Fjords there's a massive area not covered by OrbX regions and airports. I would gladly fund a kickstarter.

Anyways, I will keep this thread updated with my findings after my testing sessions.

Thanks again for the reply and suggestions, it was quite helpful.
-Andrew
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 03:44:10 PM by Jocko Flocko »

jeff3163

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 04:24:11 AM »
     It probably couldn't hurt to empty your shader cache folder.   ;)

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ualani

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 06:54:14 AM »
Do you get stutters when you turn of TrackIR and just pan around using the keyboard or joystick?

Steve
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jeff3163

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2018, 11:01:56 AM »
Do you get stutters when you turn of TrackIR and just pan around using the keyboard or joystick?

Steve

     I do.  I can fly around PASI with frames at 28-30 (locked at 30 fps), but when I pan my camera around in a continuous circle, it drops to 2-3 fps.  I am sitting near the PP15 dam project now, on the other side of the ridge from PASI.  I can spin my camera around here with little impact.



Passing over PP16 near Sitka.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 09:03:45 AM by jeff3163 »

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Jocko Flocko

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2018, 06:14:16 PM »
Just as Jeff3163 posted above I have the exact same issue if I disable Track IR and pan my head around using the hat control on my yoke. It does the exact same thing, for about 1 second the framerate drops to 3 or 4 FPS while rotating the view in *ANY* camera position either inside the virtual cockpit, spot view or aircraft view (NOT Track IR presets, the default P3D and Aircraft views)

Thanks for heads up Jeff, I've got a chance tonight and I'm going to try and track down the offending file, if I can... The really annoying thing is that even 5 to 10 miles away if I turn my head to look towards PASI (Sitka) I *STILL* get the framerate pause...

jeff3163

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2018, 06:43:11 PM »
     I find it hard to fly while spinning the camera around.   :-[   ::)
     I have grown up with FSX, so stutters were a normal part of flying.  I now fly P3dv4.2, and it is a great improvement over FSX.  But when P3d acts a little like FSX, I just ignore it and carry on.  The rest of the world is beautifully smooth, mostly. 

     I turned off ALL AI traffic, and the symptoms persisted.  So, it may be scenery based.  Maybe the Alaska Power Project? ???  OH ... or sound files ... that has been an issue in the past.   :P

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Jocko Flocko

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2018, 07:28:44 PM »
Well, I've found that the issue of the pauses are being caused by a file in the 'Tongass_Fjords_Lower_Priority' folder as when I disable this folder the issue goes away completely. This is good as it really narrows it down to either water, ground poly, landclass or mesh.

I'll dive into it tonight and find out which file(s) exactly are causing it, however since I am getting the pauses all the way over at PAGS Gustavus (but not as bad as sitting on the runway at PASI) I imagine it's something rather large....? We'll see.

Help is always appreciated. :)

Jocko Flocko

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2018, 09:35:02 PM »
Well, it's definitely being caused by the water mask files. When they are removed the pauses are gone completely, however since they are defining the coastal areas you get one big block of land where the oceans and inland lakes should be. Why they cause an issue in P3D v4.2 and not previous versions of P3D I don't know, I wish I knew more about scenery development. Anyways, here are the files to look at if there's anyone who might want to take a shot at it.

cvx_TF_FSX_water_BQ_summer.BGL
cvx_TF_FSX_water_BQ_winter.BGL
cvx_TF_FSX_water_BQ_winter_agn_excl.BGL
cvx_TF_FSX_water_summer.BGL
cvx_TF_FSX_water_winter.BGL
cvx_TF_FSX_water_winter_agn_excl.BGL

At this point I'm in over my head.

Jocko Flocko

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 04:48:14 AM »
Hmmm, I was just glancing over the texture files of "up to date" scenery from developers like 29palms and Turbulent Designs. They aren't using any .bmp files (bitmap) files for ground scenery textures, they are using all .DDS files. Do any of you think this might have something to do with the loading of these water texture files and the pauses?

stiletto2

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2018, 08:56:42 AM »
Hi Jocko Flocko,

Unfortunately, I am using P3Dv3 and not v4 so cannot test this for myself.  Using .dds as an image file vs. .bmp should not have any significant impact on rendering rate...at least it hasn't in the past   In fact,
I am guessing that there are still plenty of .bmp files in P3Dv4 like in Scenery\World\texture.   I know that at one time someone tried to convert the Scenery\World\Texture folder to .dds and the sim would not run that way.  In general, .dds files are the more desirable image files for normal imaging since the image doesn't have to be flipped though DirectX does it very quickly.

If you only turn off cvx_TF_FSX_water_summer.BGL, does that take away the stutter?   Just wondering since that is the one that causes all the main terrain water areas to be rendered. 

Am I correct that you are doing this on a single screen system?   I know Jeff has three screens.   

Have you reported this to Lockheed? If, in fact, you can clearly demonstrate the difference between P3Dv3 and v4, it sounds like a bug. 

It is a bit more problematic than it seems to convert the textures to .dds since you would also have to change the terrain.cfg file for the changed textures that are declared in the terrain.cfg.  Also, back in the FSX developer days, some very good developers came up with tricks that worked in FSX but sometimes don't work in P3D.   ORBX runs into that a bit....e.g. ORBX water that freezes has its problems in P3D but worked great in FSX.  There is always a risk that converting some .bmp files will cause trouble when you venture outside of the textures that are strictly associated with objects.

Rod


Jocko Flocko

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2018, 01:16:20 PM »
Hey Rod, hope you are having a great weekend! Thanks for getting back to me, it's truly appreciated.

I'm just out doing some fishing right now but when I get back later tonight I'll definitely have a look at what you mentioned and I'll also create a post over on the Avsim forums and see if Holger can take a peek as well. I have a triple boot computer where I have Windows 10 (P3D v4.2) Windows 7 (P3D v3.4) & Ubuntu (Linux) all on separate drives, it makes it easy to cross reference how things run comparatively to each other.

I'm just on a single screen setup and I normally fly in either 1080p or 4K on my little 23 inch Samsung monitor. I have 2 other monitors set up that I use for undocking gauge windows, flight planning and moving maps, etc, but no spanning the 3D output across multiple monitors. I'll also create a post over on the Lockheed forums, however I shy away from doing so as the software, Tongass Fjords, is quite old and hasn't been updated in a very long time.

Talk with you later
Cheers!

 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 01:18:43 PM by Jocko Flocko »

Jocko Flocko

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2018, 01:22:22 PM »


If you only turn off cvx_TF_FSX_water_summer.BGL, does that take away the stutter?   Just wondering since that is the one that causes all the main terrain water areas to be rendered. 



Yup, the stutter/pauses are gone completely when I rename 'cvx_TF_FSX_water_summer.BGL to cvx_TF_FSX_water_summer.BGL.OFF

However, as expected, the issue of the shorelines being filled with forest and terrain returns... I'm going to do a quick conversion of these water textures to .DDS. I just went through most of OrbX's scenery texture files, *NONE* of them are in Bitmap format, *ALL* are in .DDS format.

-Andrew

jeff3163

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Re: TFJ PASI (Sitka) Stutter while moving head...
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2018, 07:59:14 PM »
     I have noticed my shoreline textures at Petersburg, and probably elsewhere, are not sandy or rocky shores.  They look like farmland, I think.  Strange. 

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