Controlling the Grumman Goose on water

[williamb]

I find using asymmetric power and rudder for turning the Goose in the simulation does not work satisfactorily.  I have added Jeff Greene's water rudder addon located  under Misty's repaints for the Grumman Goose in Enhancements.  As yet I am unable to deploy/put down the water rudders.  Crtl-W does not work for me and I have been unable to find another button combination the works.  I added the water rudder information to the end of the "Contacts Points" section in the aircraft.cfg file and believe it was done correctly. Finally, I use the standard OZ goose with Lloyd Dixion flight dynamics added. 

I would appreciate any help/thoughts any one has to offer.

Thanks,
WilliamB

[jeff3163]

Hi WilliamB,
     What key combo is defined in your controller configuration for the sim?  I also use a popup nav panel which has a water rudder switch added.

Here is the popup panel I use in most of my planes.  It includes a water rudder toggle switch from a DHC-6. 

[Window03]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=156,512
window_size_ratio=1.000 
position=8
visible=1
ident=NAV_STACK_PANEL
window_size= 0.110, 0.990
window_pos= 0.220, 0.010

gauge00=Minipnl!AUTOPILOT F-111,  36,470,117,40
gauge01=Beech_Baron!Nav GPS Switch,  0,469,15,41
gauge02=Fs9gps!gps_500,  0,275,155,189
gauge03=Cessna172!Clock,  54,6,45,75
gauge04=EX500_C90!EX500,  2,96,148,169
gauge05=dhc6_sw2!water_rudder2,  17,469,17,40
gauge06=capricorn!wind_indicator,  3,4,47,79
gauge07=C185!Vertical Speed,  102,3,51,79

[williamb]

Jeff3163, 

I am currently using an X-56 Rhino Controller.  I believe it has an FSX configuration and I will check to see if it has a water rudder assigned. 
Several questions: Where is the [windows 03] popup panel placed? In the aircraft.cfg file? My goose installation has popup panels in shift1 through shift 9.  I noticed "position=8" in you panel configuration.  Should the panel currently in "shift-8" be deleted?

Sorry I am not yet familiar with programing in FSX.

Thank you for your help!
WilliamB

[jeff3163]

Hello WilliamB,
    The panel window 3 goes in the panel.cfg file.  Position 8 in panel 3's description refers to a location on the screen. (Not shift+8.)  Window 3 is panel 4, which I have a key mapped to on my yoke.  So I usually move whatever is currently in that position to the bottom of the stack or just deactivate it. 

Here are my G21A panels

[Window Titles]
Window00=Main Panel
Window01=Landing Panel
Window02=GPS
Window03=NAV_STACK_PANEL
Window04=XGauge
Window05=Electrical
Window06=Overhead Panel
Window07=Radio Stack
Window08=Fuel
Window09=Trim
Window10=Minipanel

... and the water rudder switch installed in the "NAV_STACK_PANEL" in [Window03] ...

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window03]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=156,308
window_size_ratio=1.000 
position=8
visible=1
ident=NAV_STACK_PANEL
window_size= 0.300, 0.660
window_pos= 0.000, 0.340

gauge00=Minipnl!AUTOPILOT F-111,  17,267,138,40
gauge01=Beech_Baron!Nav GPS Switch,  1,286,15,20
gauge02=Fs9gps!gps_500,  0,132,155,134
gauge03=FDCT2!water_rudder,  1,267,16,19
gauge04=dss_smit!wind_indicator,  42,100,39,28
gauge05=dss_smit!chrono_digi,  83,100,36,29
gauge06=Cessna!Heading_Indicator,  122,100,29,28
gauge07=AirCreation_582SL!asi,  3,100,36,29


//--------------------------------------------------------

     If Ctrl+W doesn't work for you, change this.  Also clicking on "New..." will allow you to map a key on your selected controller. 

[williamb]

Jeff3163,

Thanks for the additional information.  Your new information and explanation should help sort out the problem.  I will get on it,  I may get back to you should I have another question.

I appreciate you spending the time to assist me.

WilliamB

[williamb]

HI Jeff3163,

I reworked my panel.cfg file in the grumman goose aircraft panel folder.  I deleted the existing [window03] listing.  The ident for it was main_panel_alt2.  I pasted your [window03] listing into the same place and changed the [window title] to window3 Nav_Stack_Panel.   When checked, all panels worked as expected except [window3]. When shift 4 was selected a panel came up that only contained the nav/gps switch (bottom left), the gps 500 (middle) and a direction indicator (top right).   I disabled the gps 500 thinking it might obscure gauges.  When checked a panel came up as before but with no gps and the nav/gps switch and the direction indicator present.  The rest of the panel was empty.  It occurred to me the missing gauges may not be listed in the panel files?  Any thoughts/help you can provide would be appreciated!

Thanks and have an enjoyable 4th!

WilliamB

[jeff3163]

Hi WilliamB,
     You need to acquire the actual gauges that are called for, or substitute with ones that are on your system already.  The gauge filename is marked here in orange, the gauge in green and the panel coordinates in blue.  You obviously have the Beech_Baron and FS9gps and aircreation_582SL and cessna gauges.  The dss_smit gauges come from my DeltaSim Studios Smit Rotterdam tugboat.  The FDCT2 water rudder gauge comes from a cessna birddog I think.  Then there is the autopilot from an F-111 in a file called Minipnl.  I can give you any of these that you can't find, with the exception of the dss_smit gauges.  You'll need to purchase the tugboat for those.  (or substitute with similar ones)  I use FS Panel Studio to edit my gauge panels.  It lets me see the gauges I have and gives compatibility and missing component warnings etc.

gauge00=Minipnl!AUTOPILOT F-111,  17,267,138,40
gauge01=Beech_Baron!Nav GPS Switch,  1,286,15,20
gauge02=Fs9gps!gps_500,  0,132,155,134
gauge03=FDCT2!water_rudder,  1,267,16,19
gauge04=dss_smit!wind_indicator,  42,100,39,28
gauge05=dss_smit!chrono_digi,  83,100,36,29
gauge06=Cessna!Heading_Indicator,  122,100,29,28
gauge07=AirCreation_582SL!asi,  3,100,36,29

My dropbox ...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhmi7fua6eyddod/MiniPnl.zip?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6bmz1pco4v1j6q/FDCT2.CAB?dl=0

_{(BTW, the important component is only the water rudder switch.  Remember, we were installing a water rudder into a Goose?  The popup panel is just where I put mine at.  FYI.    )}

[williamb]

Hello jett3163,
I downloaded and copied the minipni cab file and the waterrudder switch cab file and copied each to my Grumman Goose panel file.  Switch 4 now brings up gauges 00,01,02,03, and 06.  Activation of the water rudder switch turns on the adjacent green light but does not deploy the water rudder.  I have added the following line to the bottom of the [contact_points] section of the aircraft.cfg file:
//Water Rudder by Jeff Greene
 point.9=5,  -15.5,  0.0,  -2.1,    0, 0, 0.0,   45.00, 0.00, 0.0, 1.00,  5.0,  5.0, 5, 0, 0
Is there anything else needed to get the a water rudder to deploy?  You have gone the distance to help me.
It may be that I need to accept the Goose's water taxi as is.

Thanks for your time,
WilliamB

[jeff3163]

You know, of course that the water rudder will be "invisible", right?   It can not be seen.  But it should work.  That is what the water rudder switch is for, so you can see when it is up or down.  Are you saying that you taxied with the switch activated and didn't have any rudder authority?  Or you can't see the rudder deploy?

Here is my contact points for the G21A HP ...

[contact_points]
       //0  Class
        //1  Longitudinal Position        (feet)
        //2  Lateral Position             (feet)
        //3  Vertical Position            (feet)
        //4  Impact Damage Threshold      (Feet Per Minute)
        //5  Brake Map                   (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
        //6  Wheel Radius                (feet)
        //7  Steer Angle                         (degrees)                                                                                 
        //8  Static Compression           (feet)  (0 if rigid)
        //9  Max/Static Compression Ratio
        //10 Damping Ratio               (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)
        //11 Extension Time              (seconds)
        //12 Retraction Time             (seconds)
        //13 Sound Type
        //14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
        //15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)
//GEAR
point.0 = 1, -20.4,  0.00, -2.902, 7500, 0, 0.52,  90, 0.42, 4.0, 0.90, 5.0, 4.0, 0, 195, 250
point.1 = 1,  -0.8, -3.75, -5.0, 7500, 1, 1.25,   0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.85, 6.0, 5.0, 2, 195, 250
point.2 = 1,  -0.8,  3.75, -5.0, 7500, 2, 1.25,   0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.85, 7.0, 6.0, 3, 195, 250
//FLOATS
point.3=4,   3.589, -2.692,  -2.2, 7500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0
point.4=4,   3.589,  2.691,  -2.2, 7500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0
point.5=4, -15.249, -1.794,  -1.25, 4500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0, 0
point.6=4, -15.249,  1.794,  -1.25, 4500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0, 0
//Wing Floats
point.7=4,  -2.45,-20.3,  -1.73, 3700, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 12.0, 12.0, 5, 0, 0
point.8=4,  -2.45, 20.3,  -1.73, 3700, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 14.0, 14.0, 5, 0, 0
//point.7=4,  -2.45,-16.146,  -1.73, 3700, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 12.0, 12.0, 5, 0, 0
//point.8=4,  -2.45, 16.146,  -1.73, 3700, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 14.0, 14.0, 5, 0, 0
//Water Rudder
point.9=5,  -15.5,  0.0,  -2.1,    0, 0, 0.0,   45.00, 0.00, 0.0, 1.00,  5.0,  5.0, 5, 0, 0

[jeff3163]

     I've just been testing my "stock" G21A in P3Dv3.4 with only the contact points edit.  No switch or panel.  It works for me.  The wingtip floats must be extended for stability.  You need some positive forward motion and aggressive rudder action, sometimes "pumping" the rudder pedals.  But it does turn and react differently with the water rudder down.  With the water rudders up, it is going straight only.   

[williamb]

Hi jeff3136.

I am embarrassed to say I did not know the water rudder was invisible.  I visually checked while the aircraft was on the ground and have not yet tried it on the water with the new switch.  I will do so.  Thanks for showing me your contact points setup and the advice from you test of Goose on water rudder.    What I know about FSX logic and program protocols (very little) has come from my trial and error efforts.  You spent more time and I have learned the most about FSX from this water rudder issue issue.  I truly appreciate your patience and help.  You are a credit to "Return to MIsty Moorings".

I plan to search the web for FSX programing information and approach my efforts in more formal manner.
Have a very enjoyable 4th of July.
WilliamB

[jeff3163]

Hi WilliamB,
     Happy 4th of July to you too.  Here is a MS library article "Aircraft Configuration Files", a config file bible really ... enjoy!



msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#mozTocId942782
(Bookmark it in your browser.)

Happy Independence Day to all Americans out there today.