Author Topic: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW  (Read 4746 times)

MackemSam

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Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« on: March 02, 2016, 04:23:41 PM »
Hi Guys,

I need to find a detailed real-world map of some of the areas covered by RTMM, initially the area covered by Tongass Fjords X, specifically Etolin Island and the area of the Stikine River and mountains around Wrangell (and Mount Flemer) on the Alaskan side of the border.  I've tried all the usual suspects that I can think of (Google Maps, Yahoo Maps, MapCarta, USGS, etc.) and have also bought a paper copy of Delorme's Alaska Atlas and Gazeteer, which has helped a fair bit but still isn't detailed enough. I need something that gives the names of lakes, creeks, mountains, etc. and I'm hoping you might be able to point me in the right direction. I'd be happy to buy a suitable paper map so it wouldn't necessarily need to be an online source (I think I've exhausted that avenue already)...I just need to know what to buy and where from.

I tried the USGS topographical maps online, and whilst they're detailed in terms of contour lines, etc., names in the online versions I've seen are mostly lacking.  I'm lucky that, for the UK, I have the Ordnance Survey maps which, if you get the most detailed ones, give the names of just about every blade of grass and slight mound of earth. That's what I'm after for Alaska, but I'm not even sure that type of map exists.

I was beginning to think many lakes and mountains in Alaska don't have names, then I saw a TV programme about Quiet Lake (north west of Anchorage) so I know that, despite it being a small(ish) lake, it has a name though I've not found any map that shows its name; you can get a C-185 floatplane into it. The same programme featured a mountain named "Eighty-Ten" because it's 8010 feet high, so now I'm back wondering if many of the features I'm searching for names for don't in fact have names, but on the other hand, I've found a small map of Ketchikan showing the VFR reporting points for PAKT, which mostly seem to be the sort of geographical features I'm looking for, so surely this information exists somewhere?  Goodness, I'm confused.

Any information will be most gratefully received and very much appreciated.

Kind Regards,
Sam
1200 feet, minimal visibility and absolutely lovin' it.


jsapair

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2016, 06:58:24 PM »
I went to my local AAA office and picked up 'Alaska and NW Canada' and 'British Columbia' maps. Traced out the regions by referring to the corresponding .kml files in Google Earth. I refer to them all the time.

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Jsapair

Doug

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2016, 09:26:23 PM »
Hi Sam ... You may be referring to MyTopo (run it in hybrid mode)... that has MANY of the names of things.  I use it all the time and most things are named.  But a fellow on TwitchTV (where I'm broadcasting MistyMoorings) put me onto XPOI. And I love it. Darned near everything is named that I would care about. And it hooks into "GeoNames" which has 8 million names in it already and is growing. So if there is something like a small lake they don't have, YOU can add it and it will show up. (They don't want ficticious places like Misty's Place for obvious reasons). Some people will like this, some will hate it ... it puts little green signs all over the place with the names of things. I turn it on when i "need to know" and turn it off the rest of the time.  But I'm finding it very accurate. (see screenshot below).

There is one problem area I cannot solve. DO NOT CHECK the FACILITIES SETTINGS in the settings area. For some reason it crashes with ORBX, but that mostly gives you NDB's VORs, etc. So I wouldn't need it anyway. I want to know the name of a mountain, or a little town, etc.  Also they do not have the Glaciers built into the program. In GeoNames, it's "code" is GLAC ... but there is no GLAC code and so they are not named. I've written them about this telling them how important these are to us. (No answer yet).

As Jsapair says, a good map of Alaska will help you with many things, but they are mostly road maps, some lakes show.  But for enjoyable VFR and having MANY of the names at your fingertips, I really like XPOI.  You can find it HERE.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 09:30:09 PM by Doug »

MackemSam

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2016, 09:14:12 AM »
Jsapair - Thanks for that, that's a source I'd never have thought of. I'll have a look for a source of AAA maps over here in the UK, I guess eBay will probably be my best bet.  :)

To be fair, I'm quite impressed with the level of detail in the maps of Delorme's Alaska Atlas and Gazetter. I'd be fine with those maps if they had just a little more detail here and there.

Doug - Sadly, nope. I've tried MyTopo in every mode I can find, but it doesnt go into enough detail for what I need. I'm starting to think these features don't actually have names, or at least their names don't appear on any published map. It just seems a bit odd to me that two sizeable lakes near Mt. Flemer are unnamed when smaller ones close by have names, at least according to USGS.

Yes, I've been trying to keep up with your broadcasts on Twitchtv, and I'm very impressed. I don't usually bother with Twitchtv because I don't think I have the best broadband signal in the world as I tend to get Twitch streams in 30 seconds to 1 minute chunks, which isn't the best. That said, I've watched a few of your RTMM broadcasts, and might try Prayer Lake Cabin this afternoon if the weather's not too bad; that one looks like fun!

I saw where you used XPOI, and I do like the look of it...I'm sure I've seen it somewhere before. I love the concept, the look of how it interfaces with FSX, and if you can add additional locations that could prove useful. Maybe I need to take another look at it.

Originally, this all came about because I was quite ill over Xmas and couldn't do much for a few weeks other than just look at my PC, and the Instant Scenery v3 I was bought as a present. I kinda thought I'd like to try my hand at a cabin or two while I'm learning how IS3 works, but it might look a bit daft if I have to list the location is listed as, "That lake over there...no, not that one...the next one over Cabin," as opposed to, using one of RTMM's locations as an  example, "Prayer Lake Cabin." That's why I'm trying to hunt down the names of places/features, but it's frustrating when even USGS maps don't show them. If only I could afford to go there, stand at the lake shore and ask my guide, "Where are we?" Mind you, if he says he doesn't know, I might push him in!  ;)
1200 feet, minimal visibility and absolutely lovin' it.


Doug

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2016, 04:37:23 PM »
Sam you are CORRECT to try to hunt down the names.  You might recall, I have 800 data entries for FSDiscover that I put in myself. I can't use it anymore because I have P3D and FSDiscover is not compat.  But if you download that database and go after it with a text reader (notes) ... there are 800 locations in there that the USGeo didn't have. I spent hours tracking them down.  What I'm thinking is you could grab a lat and long (like N56 and search those 800 entries, you might find it. I spent two years putting that together, so there is a lot of misc information in it.

Also another source is the source that fuels XPOI ... it is called GeoNames. I'm still learning how to use it. Of course Mt. Flemer is in there but I couldn't find anything around it named (same problem you are having). I've checked all my sources for the names of those little lakes ... YES they WILL have names!! We just haven't found them yet.

Prayer Lake is HERE.  That is a FUN one to fly into ... beautiful route, zig zagging among the mountains at 1200 feet and a real "surprise" ending. That was fun to do. I had to completely re-do the route for it. So that is a new route for it in the RTMM Flight Plans.zip folder.  That was one of my favorites.

Don't let go of name hunting. I'm interested if you find a source that has those little lakes ... that is starting to bug me a little ... those are named "somewhere."  We'll find them.

Doug

MackemSam

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2016, 05:24:07 PM »
Doug - I'd completely forgotten about FSDiscover! Thanks for the reminder. :) I don't have it, but if I can get at the database with a text editor that'll be a big help for now. I'll check out GeoNames too while I'm at it. I finally got the new USGS online historical map viewer thingy to work right on my PC (it doesn't like my iPad), and I've managed to get hold of some USGS topographical maps. Still nothing on those lakes though - they're not named on the USGS 250000 scale maps, and the 68000 scale maps don't cover that area. Aargh!

I'm glad though that you've confirmed these lakes will have names, even if we haven't found them yet as I was beginning to second guess myself. I'm not quite losing sleep over this, yet, but it's getting close...to think, the combined power of the interwebs defeated by several thousand gallons of water! If it's any help, the more northerly of the two lakes flows north into the Stikine River via Goat Creek...that much I have found out; I wonder if Goat Creek Lake is a possibility, Goat Lake is elsewhere in Alaska. It's incredibly frustrating not being able to find snippets of information such as these lake names; I have the same problem on Etolin Island with a mountain and a lake. *sigh*

I'll let you know as and when I find anything useful. I've put a couple of feelers out with the US Forestry Service and the City of Wrangell, so hopefully someone with local knowledge will know. Hopefully.

- Sam
1200 feet, minimal visibility and absolutely lovin' it.


Doug

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2016, 11:43:53 PM »
Sam....I was so frustrated with such a lake near Petersburg that I made a long distance call to the Mayor's office and asked the name of the lake. They were fascinated by my reason for asking, but the lady and her husband fished in the lake in the summer and she gave me the name. A $4.86 phone call let me sleep the next two nights.:-) ... We may have to call the mayor's office in Wrangell!!

MackemSam

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2016, 07:40:25 AM »
Doug - I hear ya! Yes, that's exactly how I'm feeling. No word back from US Forestry Service, or from Wrangell Chamber of Commerce (their visitors' centre has no email address) yet, so I've found a Wrangell-based professional guide who I've emailed to ask. Failing that, it's a call to the Mayor's office.

I can't believe it's so difficult to find this information. I mean, someone must know, right?

- Sam
1200 feet, minimal visibility and absolutely lovin' it.


Doug

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2016, 08:13:01 AM »
Another interesting aspect of XPOI...since it runs on GeoNames, and since we can add things to GeoNames, when we find something missing, we can add it. I've added a couple and am going to start adding more so our area will be populated. Flying Snow Dogs in Twitch last night I used it often to see the airport coming. I think I'm going to really make an effort in a couple of areas and see how they look.

MackemSam

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2016, 04:31:45 PM »
Doug - Aaaand...we have a winner!! According to my Wrangell-based professional guide, the more northerly of the two Mt. Flemer lakes is Goat Lake, the more southerly one being Upper Goat Lake.  Now all I need to do is to work out where to build my cabins.

The locations I was looking at on Etolin Island are unnamed (but at least I know that for sure now), so I'll need to be a bit more creative when it comes to naming that one..."Sam's Cabin" has a certain ring to it though, I think. ;)

Oh boy, is that a relief...I might actually get some sleep tonight!

These cabins will be a long term project as I've never built scenery for FSX/P3D before and I anticipate a fairly steep learning curve, but once (if!) I get something workable, could I ask you and the guys here to have a look at them for me?

I haven't had the chance to get to grips with GeoNames yet (been hunting those lakes non-stop), but now that little conundrum is solved, I'll investigate and might start adding a few of missing entries too.
One side-effect of my lake hunt is I've got to grips with the USGS online map viewer and now have a decent set of maps for much of the Tongass Fjords X area. Here's the Viewer link if you'd like to have a look yourself:

http://ngmdb.usgs.gov/maps/TopoView/viewer/#5/64.254/-147.283

That ought to load with the base map centred on Alaska. You can zoom in/out with your mousewheel, and change map scales with the box on the right-hand side of the screen. When you click on a highlighted square, a pop-up slides up from the bottom left and gives you access to all the maps of that particular area, depending on the map scale you've selected. Click the preview map image and a hi-res .jpg opens for you to save, or you can download your hi-res map in a variety of formats. There are bound to plenty of things on those maps missing from GeoNames.
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spud

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2016, 10:20:54 AM »
Sam,
always glad to have more help with RTMM Scenery but there is a procedure to follow for scenery submittal.  Go to the Home Page:

http://www.return.mistymoorings.com/

Look on the right side of the page near the top and see the "Rules for Contributors". click on that link for directions for submitting scenery.  Notam 1 is very important to prevent dual efforts in the same location.  Just follow the instructions for submitting scenery and you will be fine.
Later,

Spud

MackemSam

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2016, 08:10:26 PM »
Spud - Thanks for the encouragement. :) Initially I'm thinking of trying to make a cabin-type location just  for my own amusement, as a way of learning how IS3 works before considering trying to make anything for possible submission to RTMM. When I asked if you guys would maybe look over something I'd done it was just for me to get an idea if I was any good at the scenery building thing, or if I'd made a complete mess of things and should stick to flying through it rather than building it. I've no idea yet if I'll ever be able to produce anything good enough to submit.

I'd read through the contribution procedure a while ago, but thanks for reminding me about it. I downloaded the scenery guide today - the method for making working windsocks seems awfully technical (thanks to FSX's limitations), so I can't see me working on anything that'd need one anytime soon. If I ever do reach the required standard (I'm not holding my breath) to submit something to RTMM, I'll make sure to follow the procedure.

- Sam
1200 feet, minimal visibility and absolutely lovin' it.


ualani

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2016, 08:14:50 PM »
Sam,
We often collaborate on projects, so if you get to the point of making scenery and need someone to do something like the windsocks, etc for your project, just ask.
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Doug

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2016, 08:37:09 PM »
Yep, happy to help here too. Spud is right about the procedures, but you are just asking about how it's done. That's where we all started. So if you want to give this a try, let us help you. It looks more confusing than it is. Always fun to help folks...it is fun stuff, this stuff we do. Dive in, we will be here to throw you that life ring!! :-) I can give you a windsock in 5 minutes flat!  And you can do it too!! (But you have to know the name if the lake first!!! :-) Ask away, can't wait to see how you do.

Doug

MackemSam

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Re: Real World Maps - Alaska, PFJ and PNW
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2016, 07:47:48 AM »
Ualani - Thanks for the encouragement. I'm sure it won't be long before I'm asking! There are already a couple of ideas I'd like to try to incorporate, but I'm not even sure they're possible in FSX, so there'll be lots of questions coming.

Doug - Thanks for the offer and the encouragement. Just as a heads-up though, I'd stockpile life rings if I were you, and make sure your throwing arm's in fine fettle for when I get started. 😉

I completely understand about the procedures, TBH I'm glad RTMM has them. It's one of the first things I noticed about the site and the scenery locations, the seamless look of how they all fit it with the landscape and with each other. If I knew what I was doing building scenery I'd have submitted a proposal as a first step. Since I haven't a clue what I'm doing yet, and understanding my own personality (I can be a bit of a perfectionist), I didn't want to pitch for a location and then find I can't get to grips with scenery building or get frustrated and give up, leaving you all wondering if I was ever going to complete the project. That wouldn't reflect well on me, which is why I try not to commit to something unless I'm confident I can deliver.

Now I know the name of the lake, I think it's time I got stuck in and see if I can produce something to a standard I'm happy with.

- Sam
1200 feet, minimal visibility and absolutely lovin' it.