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Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D) => DX10 and Prepar3D Discussions => Topic started by: stiletto2 on June 04, 2017, 10:35:04 PM

Title: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on June 04, 2017, 10:35:04 PM
Hi all,

Dex, our AI traffic guru and new owner of P3D v4, pointed out three AI models (two fixed wing and one helo) to me that do not display correctly in P3D v4 now that LM has dropped FS9 support for AI models.  Since, P3D v4 does support FSX animated AI models, I have now converted to FSX (using Arno's great MCX utility) and Dex has successfully tested the three FS9 AI flying models that did not display correctly in P3D v4.  One of the fixed wing aircraft is the DeHavilland Dash 7 Cargo AI model in TFX.  By the way, it seems almost all of the other TFX AI models work fine.

So, it seems that animation repair of FS9 AI models that don't display correctly in P3D v4 can be made though we are not able to recreate prop blur.   Loss of prop blur on an AI model is a small price to pay in order to fix missing tires or propellers/rotors that don't move at all.

This is indeed good news!

Rod



Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: macwino on June 18, 2017, 01:22:52 PM
2 questions:

Exactly which AI, besides the Dash 7, don't work properly in P3D v4?

And will the corrected models be posted somewhere?

Thanks,
Robert
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on June 19, 2017, 07:48:33 AM
Our initial TFX tests (Dex did testing) only found the Dash 7 needed reconstruction due to display problems.  We need beta testers who have P3Dv4 for additional testing of TFX to see if any other AI models don't work. I did the conversion of the Dash 7 but don't have P3Dv4 myself since I am normally a very late adopter of new P3D releases.  Therefore, I am unable to test on my own system.  That is why Dex tested it for me since he has P3Dv4.

Have you, macwino, done any testing on your system in P3Dv4 to identify TFX AI problems? 

Once we get more TFX testing done, we will figure out some type of method to provide a repaired model or models as required.

Rod

Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: dbutterf on June 19, 2017, 01:21:02 PM
Our initial TFX tests (Dex did testing) only found the Dash 7 needed reconstruction due to display problems.  We need beta testers who have P3Dv4 for additional testing of TFX to see if any other AI models don't work. I did the conversion of the Dash 7 but don't have P3Dv4 myself since I am normally a very late adopter of new P3D releases.  Therefore, I am unable to test on my own system.  That is why Dex tested it for me since he has P3Dv4.

Have you, macwino, done any testing on your system in P3Dv4 to identify TFX AI problems? 

Once we get more TFX testing done, we will figure out some type of method to provide a repaired model or models as required.

Rod



Rod,

I have p3D v4 installed and would not mind doing some testing.

I don't have a lot of time but will do what I can.

Just let me know what is required.

I have Misty's Place installed and not much else at the moment. Let me know what is required and I'll give
it a go.

Dayle
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on June 19, 2017, 03:51:55 PM
Hi Dayle,

Thanks for the offer but will probably hold for a bit until more data comes in.   Dex has only had a display problem with the Dash 7.  He has not seen any CTD examples when zooming in on and watching FS9 AI floats in TFX.  Dex is our guru in AI.  Isolating AI and analyzing properly takes experience and it will take a bit more time before we are ready to release anything. 

Stay tuned.

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: macwino on June 19, 2017, 04:12:04 PM

Have you, macwino, done any testing on your system in P3Dv4 to identify TFX AI problems? 


Thanks for the prompt reply. No, I've not done any testing. Indeed, I don't even know how to find the planes in the sim. But once the mods are made, I'd be happy to test them if you can let me know where to find them.

Robert
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: gavinc on June 30, 2017, 02:05:17 PM
Hi,
I've been working with some folks over at AIG to convert FS9 models to FSX native formats. Be happy to work with you on converting the TFX models to FSX native format.

Thanks
Gavin
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: ualani on June 30, 2017, 03:41:22 PM
I could be wrong, but the issue is that the TFX models were working in FSX but now aren't working in P3DV4. So it isn't simply a matter of converting FS9 AI models to FSX format.
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on June 30, 2017, 03:48:31 PM
Hi Gavin,

Steve is correct in that this conversion specifically concerns converting animated models with moving props etc. as opposed to static models  In case animation conversion is where your experience lies, I sent you a PM where we could discuss in further detail.

Thanks for your interest.

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on July 08, 2017, 04:08:34 PM
Hi all,

As several have reported, there are 4 models in Tongass Fjords X that needed conversion to function properly in P3Dv4.  They are the two DHC-3s, the DHC-6  and the Dash 7 models.  At first I thought, we could not get the prop blur discs isolated from the FS8 & 9 models to gives us some blur on the turning props, but Gavin (his offer to help post is a bit above in this thread) sent me a draft document he was working on to guide a developer on converting AI models from FS9 to FSX or P3D native format.  It included instruction on how to extract the blur discs assuming that one is familiar with Arno's excellent MCX tool.  In addition, a high end paint program, RADitor and a tool like DXTBmp were also required.  I am happy to say that, with Dex spending a lot of time testing in a P3Dv4 environment, all 4 AI models have been successfully converted to be FSX models which function perfectly in P3Dv4.   We are in the final phase now of fine tuning the models a bit, preparing a small distribution package (FSAddon has already approved) and testing the installation of the package for final release to Doug for posting.   

I am hoping we are able to have the conversion package ready within this coming week or so.

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: Bradallen43 on July 08, 2017, 04:53:56 PM
Rod,

That's great news to hear and thanks to your efforts and help from Gavin, Tongass Fjords will continue to deliver a great scenery experience in P3D v4 for years to come.

Nice to hear you discussing the painstaking process and it's complexity in person at lunch today. I hope we can get together again soon. Maybe we could try to have an annual RTMM get together? I'd be happy to to do that.

Brad
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: NeptuneP2V7 on July 09, 2017, 01:57:13 PM
Hi bradallen your Photobucket is full and in your topic not display screen

go here, is unlimited : http://www.fsfiles.org/  it's OZx hosting screen .

Patrick
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: ualani on July 09, 2017, 08:51:43 PM
I've noticed the same PhotoBucket messages on other internet forums, so it isn't anything unique to Brad. Looks like a PhotoBucket issue.
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on July 09, 2017, 10:30:46 PM
Hi all,

TFX AI Model package is in final Beta.   See below for pics taken by Dex in P3Dv4 of each model in action.

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: NeptuneP2V7 on July 10, 2017, 12:39:23 AM
Hello
With screen for anyone you proof that are totaly functional   ;)

nice event , where to download ?

Patrick
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on July 10, 2017, 07:27:22 AM
Hi Patrick,

Final test is sometime this week.  It should be ready to download after that.

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: NeptuneP2V7 on July 11, 2017, 03:57:21 AM
YEP STILETTO .

Thanks to work on the benchmark for .

Patrick
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on July 24, 2017, 07:25:38 PM
Tongass Fjords X (TFX) SimObjects AI Model update for P3Dv4                             July 23, 2017

Note:  There is no particular reason to implement this update if you do not use P3Dv4 or higher even though these converted models will run in a FSX or P3D environment.  It is possible that an FSX/P3Dv3 or P3Dv2.5 user might like the prop spin & blur on these converted models better since they were tailored to look good in FSX as well as P3D.  The old TFX AI models were designed to run most effectively in  FS2002/FS2004 and do not always look that good in FSX.  However, this package of converted TFX SimObjects models is required for anyone who wants to benefit from the full AI as it was designed for TFX in P3Dv4 or higher. 

RTMM has identified four TFX AI Airplanes that are not completely compatible with P3Dv4 now that Lockheed Martin has removed the SimObjects backwards compatibility for AI  models constructed under the FS8 and FS9 SDKs.   This update converts these models to be FSX models so that they will work properly in P3Dv4.  The models converted are the two DHC-3s, the DHC-6 and the Dash 7.  You can see pictures of the converted models a bit earlier in this thread.

While Doug is having his cataract surgery, I have provided a Dropbox download link for this update.  Once Doug is back it will be moved to the P3Dv4 section and have a normal RTMM Scenery download link.

Edit 8/11/17:  Version 1.1 is now available which also contains v1.0.  V1.1 includes the above mentioned AI Planes as well as the AI TFX Bell 206L Helicopter conversion which most users have never seen due to a bug in the TFX release which caused the Bell 206L not to be loaded at run time. 

If you already loaded v1.0, v1.1 documentation tells you how to jump to the end of the install instructions so you can just add the Bell 206L.

Here is the new link:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtqaz6ajq2itf77/TFX%20SimObjects%20AI%20Update%20for%20P3Dv4%20V1.1%208-7-17.zip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtqaz6ajq2itf77/TFX%20SimObjects%20AI%20Update%20for%20P3Dv4%20V1.1%208-7-17.zip?dl=0)

Rod


Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: BBQSteve on July 25, 2017, 12:21:28 PM
Thanks for those updates. I don't want to sound ungrateful, but don't ya think it would have been a whole lot easier to have just zipped the finished product, vice the elaborate change document we have to follow to install them? I'm quite sure question and help requests will soon follow. I was fortunate enough to get it right the first time.

In any case, thanks again, looks good when working!
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on July 25, 2017, 04:22:13 PM
Hi BBQSteve.

".....zipped the finished product, vice the elaborate change document we have to follow to install them."

Don't want to guess at what you meant by "vice"....

What are you trying to say here? 

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: ualani on July 25, 2017, 08:54:05 PM
From what I see, the finished product was zipped. The document's installation instructions are concise and well detailed, point by point. Glad you got it right the first time meaning the docs obviously did their job and understandable.

Great job Rod, and many thanks for the untold hours the three of you put into this project.
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: jeff3163 on July 25, 2017, 09:35:03 PM
     Yes, thanks Rod for providing the instructions.  (and ALL the work too, of course)  :P

     We do prefer when people read the instructions, and follow them before they post here for help.  It's just better that way.  ;)
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on July 25, 2017, 09:41:53 PM
Hi Steve, Jeff.

Thanks for your kind words.   I worked on the process of conversion for almost two months off and on.  It was something I had never done before and thanks to Gavin, I was able to learn a process that worked.  Dex did all the initial testing on his P3Dv4 system since I am not yet on P3Dv4.

I am glad it all worked out.

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: BBQSteve on July 26, 2017, 10:42:18 AM
What I meant as vice is at some point you had to have a finished aircraft with all the changes made. A that point you could zip all the aircraft into one zip file and say "Unzip this file into a temp folder and copy these AI folders into your simobjects/airplanes folder, copy and paste the bgl into your world/scenery folder and go fly."

See how easy that was?
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: ualani on July 26, 2017, 11:58:10 AM
And that would be a violation of our permission agreement with the original author as well as copyright. Why can't you just accept things as they are so freely given to you? You obviously have no idea as to what goes on behind the scenes and what it takes to pull this stuff off.
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: BBQSteve on July 26, 2017, 12:13:02 PM
Obviously. So enlighten me. That would have been all that was needed to be said in the first place. "In order to circumvent any copyright laws, this is what we had to do." See, again, short, concise and sweet.
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: ualani on July 26, 2017, 01:03:30 PM
In order to circumvent any copyright laws? We have no intention to circumvent the law. Holy cow!
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: Bradallen43 on July 26, 2017, 03:20:56 PM
Okay enough BBQ Steve. Rod and our team put in untold hours of their own time to make things for you to have access too. How about this. Use our files as is or not. Nobody is making you. Your choice. If you want to have a conversation about how you think files should be installed or distributed you have that right and we usually are open to suggestions if they're put to us in a constructive way. But I think your replies are now just venting.

You may have said "I don't want to sound ungrateful" but you are. What you are missing is that we have people who frequent our website that aren't as proficient as you might think when it comes to installing things and they just might need things spelled out in more detail.

So if this type of thing doesn't sit well with you, sorry but that's the way it's going to be.

And if you ever make a suggestion to circumvent any copyright again I can assure you that you'll find yourself on the outside of our forum in a hurry. We won't stand for it and you're officially on notice. Change your tune or find somewhere else to complain at because you won't be welcome here anymore.

Brad
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: NeptuneP2V7 on July 27, 2017, 08:05:30 AM
Hi guys & stiletto2
thanks to this upgrad

As always congrat to take time for us

best regards

Patrick
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on July 27, 2017, 11:12:13 AM
Thanks, Patrick.

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: Sandy on July 29, 2017, 03:14:57 PM
Thank you all for the work on making TFX more fully P3D v4 compatible. Hoping to get TFX fully in place soon. I miss flying that area!
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on July 29, 2017, 03:50:24 PM
Thanks, Sandy.

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: YoYo on August 06, 2017, 01:01:00 PM
Tongass Fjords X (TFX) SimObjects AI Model update for P3Dv4                             July 23, 2017

Note:  There is no particular reason to implement this update ....

Thank You too!!!  :D
Installed...
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on August 06, 2017, 07:40:04 PM
Your welcome!

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: smpetty on August 07, 2017, 11:12:57 PM
Rod, Gavin, and Dex -

You guys are awesome!  Spent the entire day on and off getting all of Tongas Fjords and RTMM installed into P3Dv4.  Prepar3D v4 just hasn't felt like home without Misty's Place and RTMM.  Had it all finished, held my breath and ran P3D, it loaded to 100%, and CTD!  Luckily I found this thread, updated the models, and I'm back home at PF20.  Its people like you that make the RTMM community so great.

Many thanks!

Scott
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on August 08, 2017, 01:46:04 PM
Thanks, Scott.   And, with Gavin's input, we have solved the Bell 206L helicopter problem so will have a v1.1 of the TFX AI fix to include the Bell 206L so that you can also enjoy TFX AI Helicopters.  If you already put in v1.0, it is not a problem as you can jump to a section in v1.1 just to add the helo. Coming soon!

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: dexthom on August 08, 2017, 03:10:30 PM
Tongass Aero at Sitka

(http://www.fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2017/08/09/P3Dv4.0-2017-aug-8-005.jpg)
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: corbu1 on August 08, 2017, 04:07:41 PM
Great!! Thank you to all for this great job!
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on August 11, 2017, 05:01:59 PM
Hi all,

Reply #17 in this thread had the download link for v1.0 of the TFX SimObjects AI Update for P3Dv4.  I have just changed the download link to load v1.1 of this package which has the same content plus it now also includes the TFX Bell 206L Helicopter conversion which most users have never seen due to a bug in the original TFX release which caused the Bell 206L not to be loaded at run time.

If you already loaded v1.0, v1.1 documentation tells you how to jump to the end of the install instructions so you can just add the Bell 206L to complete your working TFX AI set of flying AI in P3Dv4.   All FSX and P3D users who are not able to currently see the Bell fly in TFX, can also jump to the Bell 206L loading instructions to load the Bell 206L Helicopter AI in TFX.   

If you don't want to go back to the modified reply #17 to download v1.1, here is a repeat of the link in reply #17 to download version 1.1 of TFX SimObjects AI Update for P3Dv4:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtqaz6ajq2itf77/TFX%20SimObjects%20AI%20Update%20for%20P3Dv4%20V1.1%208-7-17.zip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtqaz6ajq2itf77/TFX%20SimObjects%20AI%20Update%20for%20P3Dv4%20V1.1%208-7-17.zip?dl=0)

Rod
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: YoYo on August 12, 2017, 06:43:09 PM
Nice found, thank You!
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: Jethro7 on November 15, 2017, 02:16:51 AM
Hello Rod, (Stiletto2)

3 things,

1). Joined rtmm forum today, so hello to all. I'm late to the rtmm party so I have much reading to do.

2). I have only recently purchased & installed TFX into FSX, after a little while trying out my new scenery (Region TFX) I thought AI was a little scarce, particularly the AI Bell206L (v1.1 will fix that right up).

3). I would like to add my thanks to yourself and all contributors to this (AI fix) as well as the (PAWG & Ice Floe) patches. And the PDF instruction included in the DL (most appreciative of that and the effort taken to provide a concise instruction set to us TFX newbies)  It was great to see FSX still being kindly supported with these improvements, along with P3Dv4.x compatibility.

Now I need to cruise the RTMM pages to see what other interesting goodies there may be!
 
Kind Regards Jethro
Title: Re: Repairing AI Airplanes and Rotorcraft that do not display correctly in P3D v4
Post by: stiletto2 on November 15, 2017, 06:36:36 AM
Hi Jethro,

Thanks and welcome!   Take your time looking around and enjoy the ride.  If you have any questions feel free to ask the group as we are a friendly bunch.

Have fun!

Rod