Misty Moorings Forums
Return to Misty Moorings (FSX/P3D/MSFS2020) => Addon Scenery and Enhancements => Topic started by: Doug on July 25, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
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We are starting a new section, the Alaska Power Project. Many people have asked questions about how we go about building a section like this. So we will give you a "hole in the fence" to look through so you can watch the construction. Of course, this project is a long way from "prime time." We will encounter new problems, but along with them, new solutions. If you are one of those interested in watching such a process grow, you are welcome to join us and look over our shoulder. You will find the link for the new project at the bottom of the SCENERY page in the beta section ... the "APP" you will find there is a link to the developing page.
The Construction Log will tell you what we are doing and the zip (if you are brave enough to try it) will reflect the last entry in the Construction Log. For those not "installing" it, we'll have progress picture links you can click on to see what has been done. (There is nothing in the zip that will hurt you, but something you may be looking at simply will not be finished). If you have ideas or suggestions along the way, let us know in this thread, we would be happy to hear from you.
For those not interested in construction, we will let you know with the NOTAMs when the project is finished and ready for downloading.
Thomas and Doug
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Ran into the first interesting problem. We had intended to put in all of the hydroelectric plants, the ones that are there now and the proposed ones. I went to Ruth Lake, a proposed site ... small problem ... the lake doesn't know there is a dam there! :-) So the water level is where it would be BEFORE a dam was built ... what to do? Well instead of building a finished plant ... the proposed plants will all be under construction (so the lake has not yet filled). You can see the first of these at Ruth Lake Hydro which is almost finished. (You don't have to download the zip for the project, you can see the progress with the screen shots listed on the table. (Go to the Scenery Page, go to the beta area at the bottom of the Scenery page and click on the APP link. Most of the vehicles at the site are in motion as are the cranes.
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Beautiful Project!!!
I like the idea of doing some plants under construction....this is like simulating the real world. Not all buildings are finished out there. There's always something to build up. Other sites have to be maintained.
Also construction sites give heli guys the possibilty of being a part of the construction team with slingloading goods and construction materials at the site...... :) :)
Just checked the latest screenshots of Ruth Lake construction site. It looks beautiful!!
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Should be PLENTY opportunity for helis at the construction sites. If you look at Ruth Lake, there's a pad on the wharf at the receiving dock and another one on the construction site floor up by the dam. That one is going to be very difficult. I placed it where it would likely be when all is finished and landscaped. Float planes will have fun too because there is always a resovoir.
What I personally miss for the construction sites is the landscaping. Imagine Ruth Lake hydro. Beautiful road going up to it. Trees planted along the outfall stream...a recreation area near where the Brad's is, maybe a small lodge? It would really be beautiful finished...but alas, it is a construction site...and they are not typically pretty.
We will have dispatches for these. I don't know much about the heli side if this, carrying things around, etc. but if someone has ideas for a dispatch for construction, I'll help make it happen.
Doug
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Update on Ruth Lake ... Helipad on the wharf didn't work, you "hit the ground" 20 feet above that wharf object. So Moved the helipad over to the construction office and added windsock on the roof. Put in an electrical transmission station near the hydro power house and added pylons back past Brad's BBQ. At the last one, there is a construction crew building the latest pylon. Helicopters are going to have to be careful landing at these helipads, with all the construction cranes around and light poles. Should be a challenge. Will work on the ADEX for it next, then this one is finished.
NOTAM: be sure, if you are RE-DOWNLOADING to take out the old files for this project in your Scenery Library before you add the new ones. During beta runs, we sometimes change file names and you will get duplicate objects and conflicts if you don't do this. Be Safe, REPLACE!
D
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Excellent job Doug & RTMM team for another project on the works... and thanks for introducing more challenging scenarios for us rotorheads ;D
Here's a RW demo on what Klaus might have meant on a precision maneuver called "slingloading" on a powerline construction site.. ;) 8) :o
https://youtu.be/LWXawT5RGZs
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Damn....talk about precision....I have trouble getting one up and down in 1 piece :o 8)
John
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Hi ... update.
I pulled the Swan Lake Hydro, that I "thought" was Ruth Lake, out of the APP project and made it stand alone with Bradley Lake Hydro and Big Falls Hydro ... made an extra table on the page for those. So now I've gone back and done the REAL Ruth Lake. Very interesting. There is a small hill where you see the dam in the attached pic, I used digital dynamite and blew it up (the stream was leaving the lake, going UP and over the hill and back down ... but not any more!). Then put the dam where the hill was. This facility also has a material receiving dock down at the shoreline and a connecting access road with trucks ... loaded going to the dam, empty coming back. You can also land on the "lakeside" of the dam ... a little dock is there. For now, you would walk though the water tunnel to the other side (but don't try it! :-).
The Materials Receiving Dock also has a helipad and a place for a float plane (at Brad's BBQ). Both facilities are lit up for night operations. If you are flying a heli into these be darned careful. There are high light poles and cranes. There are also electrical transmission towers. There is a windsock near each and fuel at the Brad's dock for the float planes. If you heli needs fuel, hover over the Brad's and you'll get an ariel fill-up.
Ruth Lake Hydro is a "proposed" site. So on the proposed ones, they will all be under construction. For the plants already operating, there will only be maintenance vehicles, etc. This is a little different than dropping in a cabin and a couple of trees and picnic tables ... really takes some time and a lot of "starting over." To get things correct. Although we may make some changes, Ruth Lake is operational. Dorothy Lake, an operational plant is coming from Thomas soon.
Again, if you have downloaded the Alaska Power Project zip before ... PLEASE take those files out of your scenery library before you add anything from this new zip. File names change and you'll have all sorts of bad things happen if you don't do this. Remember you can click on the pics to enlarge them.
Doug
PS ... and that video of the placement of those transmission towers was absolutely amazing. I've never seen that before.
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That looks great, Doug.
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Splendid project screenies Doug! 8)
A bit off-topic here: That video obviously exhibits the skill of SA-64 Skycrane pilots with 4,000 HP of thrust for heavy lifting! To those wondering, there's a rear-facing observer/engineer that controls the slingload hoist and coordinates with the pilot on the desired position, altitude and orientation of the hanging load relative to its target. Probably their field boss is spotting from the smaller MD500 hovering nearby to put pressure on the Skycrane crew to get the job done right and on time with no costly or disastrous mistakes.. Talking about job pressure and finesse going hand-in-hand multiplied by the number of these towers they have to install ;)
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But when you are DARNED GOOD at what you do...piece of cake! I'm a chem E so what do I know, but if I had engineered that it would have had four funnels in the four posts so if you are not precise, you could still get it to match up. I'd like to see the clasping mechanism up close to see how it works, maybe just gravity holding it till they can bolt it? I look at the electrical transmission towers we are putting in (with the click of a mouse) with a new sense of awe. Thank you for adding the video, nice addition to the thread.
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Thomas has created the Lake Dorothy Hydro (complex). This is a very interesting and complex scenery location with many pieces. He has also added a very informative "doc" for it (that you can download and look at from the table for Lake Dorothy (Look for the new "DOC" button). This is a "real" facility.
This is a beautiful place to visit, the kind of place you would like to spend a couple of days at just hanging out and looking at the scenery and enjoying the facility lakes and outfalls, etc.
We are still looking at file formats and how we are going to do things. If you want to try this (remember it is beta!) you just put the Alaska Power Project folder into your scenery library and activate it. Later, when we update the zip, you just remove that folder and add the new one that comes down in the zip.
Attached are pictures, but they do not do this location the justice it deserves, you'll have to see it yourself.
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This is an amazing project!
Thank you working on it for the RTMM folks!
All I saw so far looks great!
The pictures of the lake dorothy site are awesome.
I'm a bit busy the next two days.... But on sunday I can start exploring these sites.
Did I understand the intention of the project correct so as powerlines will also built into the landscape?
If so, can some of these powerlines be prepared for heli maintenance action?
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We are putting transmission towers leaving some if the plants, but of course, not the whole line. We only have an " object" of the tower, so no pieces of it. I'm not sure what we would need to place to make something like that for you. We will explore nearly anything, at least try.
I'm working on the proposed Thayer Creek project near Angoon. This is a comparatively tiny facility, a 10 foot dam upstream, buried 42" PVC pipeline parallel to the creek, to below a falls where the small little powerhouse will reside by the creek, total cost about $1,000,000. This us a good location because salmon cannot get up the falls, so putting it here would not interfere with their habitat. Problem is, in the sim, Thayer Creek goes up the sides of the hills, etc...it isn't in a basin. So I'm going to have to build the basin for the creek. This is about a 10 mile long project. Then I'll have to make an abrupt change in height to create the falls. They do mention in the proposal that some heli work will be necessary, so a pad near the powerhouse. The trail up to the dam will be ATV accessible only. Not very exciting as a result product but it will be fun to build. This will have about 6 miles of transmission lines to Angoon, maybe something maintenance wise in that stretch?
These locations are helicopter intensive. Thayer Creek won't have any place to land a float plane. So it is a very different kind of project for us.
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Doug,
Regarding the powerlines, do you remember kildalapass scenery?
Ther's this nice helipad on the powerlines for nice heli approaches. I was thinking in that direction.
Powerlines maintenance is mostly done with small helis of the MD500 series, because these birds can be flown very precise and are small enough for use in remote areas.
On the ground nearby there could be some vehicles, peoples, construction materials etc. and a helipad.
We have a fueltruck with a landable platform. That would be great placed there.
What do you think?
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Funny I had the Kildala Pass scenario in mind too :) Maybe another task variation should require a pilot to do like whats depicted in this video...
https://youtu.be/kh8Zu5_0Am0
That's why flying helos are so fun, challenging and most of all..bad ass! :o 8) There's just lots of crazy and dangerous tasks you can do with it...if you have the skill and guts to make it happen :P :o
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Ok, we will sure look into it. This one I'm working on is pretty simple, needs something, maybe I'll try something on it. Your ideas are really appreciated. Thank you.
D
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Thayer Creek Hydro Added
This was an interesting one (under construction). This is a very small power plant, the whole operation will cost about $1,200,000 ... tiny for power projects. The community of Angoon uses diesel generators for power. At the time of the plant's proposal, they were running 34 cents per kilowatt hour ... Washington, DC at that time was running 7 cents per kilowatt hour! Thayer Creek is a perfect location for their needs. Thayer Creek is located about 6 miles north of Angoon. About a mile up the creek is a very steep, rocky falls that salmon cannot use (naturally), so a dam on Thayer Creek would not hurt the salmon industry. To get the head pressure, the earthen breastwork dam has to be built above the falls. A 42" PVC pipe will carry the water from the dam down past the falls to the power plant. The locals must cut a trail along the creek up to the dam location and, using a small backhoe, construct an earthen breastwork. The trail will be used for access and for dragging logs. In our depiction, the facility is nearly ready. They are still clearing and burning brush, dragging out the logs (which helps pay for the operation), and are getting ready to start the turbines.
There are two places to land a helicopter, and a float plane dock. Unlike the "real" world, ORBX had the terrain here rising up to 200 feet near the coast, so the stream was running uphill. I changed all that cutting a canyon for the basin of the creek which made it all flow DOWN from Thayer Lake. This one was technically interesting to construct. (There are no windsocks, watch the smoke from the fires for wind direction).
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Thayer Creek looks excellent, Doug!
Just watched the very interesting vimeo video explaining the need for thayer creek hydro project in the angoon area. Thanks for adding the link to the scenery document.... I recommend everybody watching it.
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Just "discovered" this thread.. WOW! one of my favorite projects coming to life.. I have added many Dams using Instant scenery..some look OK, some don't.. I am so looking forward to seeing your offerings.
Want a Beta Tester???? Teecee.
PS: is it your intention to release these dams as you create them, or as a group when completed?
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Thanks all for the kind words and emails ... we are enjoying this too. The video was my main source for this location. So when you see the depictions there, you'll recognize them in what I did. And TeeCee ... you ARE a beta tester if you download the zip at the APP page. :-) We are purposely keeping this one "open" for people who have the courage to play with a beta. We are forever changing it and messing around with it ... so be sure to TAKE OUT the previous Alaska Power Project folder completely then add the new folder from the latest zip. (We are changing file names and it can get confusing... best thing, replace, do not overwrite. Keep an eye on the Construction Log on the page to see if you have the latest. (Look at the APP link on the bottom of the Scenery Page.) And when you find things wrong, no problem passing it along in this thread. People might get a better understanding of what we are going through.
On Thayer Creek Hydro (my latest), the stream going across the reservoir just wasn't "right." I tried making a scenic walkway ... that was better, but it didn't seem correct either. So when in doubt, ask Holger. (God Bless this man and his brain!!!). Got an immediate answer back what to do. Tried it, and it worked!!! You "exclude" the vector for that stream, then you have to REBUILD a whole new stream ... which I did. So the problem is now gone. I put the finishing touches on Thayer Creek, adding a workers' quarters (cabins), and "river-scaped" the stream. This one, with the learning curve and re-do's, took about 60 hours. :-) Good thing we enjoy this stuff, huh? (But so much fun to learn some new things!). Here's pics of the latest ... and I hope final version. (As you look around, you may see a bush out of place or something, take a screenshot and send it to me...I'll fix it).
Doug
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Beautiful! Thanks to Holger for his help. Thayer Creek screenshots look amazing.
Today, I checked Goat Lake Hydro in my sim.
Great location. There's so much detail put in this scenery.......beautiful.
Both helipads are nice challenges on approach and take off...especially the one in the lower location...the heli folks will love it, I'm sure.
There was only one small issue with the fuel barrel on the upper helipad. It is floating a few inches in the air.....
Goat lake hydro is a beautiful addition to the skagway area....
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Hi ... OK, lowered the oil drums. These things are VERY tricky on elevations, and it is so easy for that to happen where there is not a lot of ground definition under it. No problem, fixed. Those are just the things we are looking for ... so if you see something, let us know. The new zip is up with the oil drum fixed.
Doug
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Hi,
Checked Lake Dorothy Hydro this evening......
Looks beautiful.....I came in from Juneau low in my Bell 407 entering Taku Inlet....and what did I see in the distance?....This beautiful huge concrete wall of the base power station.....EXCELLENT!!!
It's a very complex station as there are three lakes involved. The heli folks will love it hovering around and watching all the beautiful details. All items used look completly plausibel....in that way it must also work in the real location.
I love the helipad at the powerhouse site placed into the terrain....the helipad at bart lake is avreal nice challenge on approach, watch out for the trees there....
A few objects you might check elevation : The two fork-lift trucks on the oier of powerhouse site seems to stuck a few inches in the ground with the wheels.
The person on the dam of Bart Lake looked a bit small sized ...
As said, I was very impressed. The design of this site looks so real..... :)
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Thayer Creek addition ... I added a construction crew "covering" the pipeline with dirt ... which they would have to do or the pipe would freeze in the winter. Also leveled out the lower basin so it looks smoother for the stream.
Doug
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Snettisham Hydro by Thomas ...
Under construction. the power plant is complete (is part of the download beta zip). Now working on the upper lake area. This one is looking exactly as the real thing.
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Mahoney Lake Hydro (Near Ketchikan)
This plant is actually presently under construction. There is a dam at Upper Mahoney Lake, and twin tunnel system leading down to the plant on Mahoney Lake. There is an access road to the nearby "Ore Plant" where the materials for construction will be received and staged (barge access). The challenge was to create a river from upper Mahoney Lake down the side of the mountain and include the waterfall that exists half way down the mountain. There are three helipads and two float plane docks. There is a windsock up at the dam and fuel available at the float plane fuel dock at the hydro plant.
Again, these are all beta ... so there could be problems. If you find a problem let us know.
Doug
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Mahoney Lake and Snettisham screnshots look beautiful, Doug.
Wow, Thomas and you are building these sites faster as I'm able to fly there :)
I'm not sure if you noticed my comments on a few objects in Lake Dorothy scenery in my recent post.
If not you might have a look on it.
I will make my way south in the next days and check the other sites.
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I'll take a look at Dorothy Lake this morning. And "update" here.
Doug
Update#1 .. can't find the problems. Could you send me a screenshot? Thanks.
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Whitman Lake Hydro - Plant actually under construction - By Doug Linn
A small hydroelectric plant that is actually now under construction. It is located behind Herring Bay. We were careful not to place to many objects so not to interfere with the frame rates on the already overeoaded Ketchikan area.
Notam: This location is NOT compatible with the PAKT PAYWARE package. So we have made it a SEPARATE download, it is not part of the Alaska Power Project zip file. Download it from the zip button and install it like any other RTMM scenery package. If you have PAKT Payware, ignore this one.
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Checked today Thayer Creek Hydro and Snettisham hydro plant.....both looking beautiful!
Wow, Thayer Creek is a very complex scenery..there's so much to see.
You must have spent lots of hours creating it.....thanks for the hard work!!
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They are "fun"...but what you do not see is the hardest part. The elevations for these things have to be correct or the simply wouldn't work, lower lakes emptying into higher lakes, outfall streams going uphill. To see this, position yourself at Thayer, save it , uncheck the APP , go back in...you probably will not recognize the terrain. So you have to do a lot of groundwork to make them work.
D
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Was flying to Ruth Lake ans Swan Lake hydro facilities today.
These two locations are heli guys paradise!!! There are lots of detail to discover around.
They will be my new playgrounds for the CH47, Bell212 and MD530F.....nice precision flying is needed there! I love these kind of challenge!!
At Ruth Lake Dam construction site I believe I found an issue with the small power house there.
Due to the sloped terrain this building with base floats a few inches in the air downhill. You might check this.....may be a brick wall like you did at the besrby helipad would work?
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Fixed the Power Plant elevation problem at Ruth Lake ... good catch. thank you.
Doug
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Reynolds Creek Proposed Site (Currently Actually Under Construction)
Reynolds Creek Hydro is now "up" and ready to look at, beta-wise. This one had some special challenges design-wise. What should have been "simple" was "complex" in that the terrain had to be significantly altered to make it work. For the "fun of it", I documented that changes in the Readme so anyone who is interested in seeing the sausage being made can see the whole gruesome process! :-) Pictures of before/after are in the readme.
README PDF HERE (http://return.mistymoorings.com/alaska_power_project/docs/PP10_reynolds_creek.pdf)
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Hats off to Doug & the RTMM team! More addons are getting better and more dynamically engaging.. 8) I'm not a scenery developer but just a thought if it may be possible-why not capture these various hydro construction phases over time to preserve the "labor of love" you guys have impressively showcased here similar to either what Rod J.'s seasonal switcher does (where a construction from start to finish progress all year-round through each season instead of just the seasons itself changing) or maybe similar to the medical facilities dispatch on/off tool (where the user can also activate/deactivate a certain construction stage or scenario hence more control on what to portray according to preference)? Either way or if even possible with the tools and techniques you guys might already have, sometimes it's refreshing and "more alive"to see different stages of progress or scenarios than just plainly static to keep a pilot's interest in coming back to certain RTMM areas and call it "picture perfect" in case you guys haven't entertained the idea yet. It's also about the "journey" in coming up with the project, not just the "destination" of project completion itself. Injecting a few cents FWIW.. ;)
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Snettisham Beta finished, I have 2 ORBX(?) trees close to the runway, can't get them cut down so I asked Doug for help. Please check all of you beta testers this package to get it Alpha. Doug will upload it soon, hope you will enjoy it.
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Taking a look first time myself...I'll see if I can cut down the trees then post it tonight.
UPDATE: I looked at those two trees. IS3 wouldn't touch them. SBuilderX AB_Exclude wouldn't eliminate them. In IS3 I did the "search extra bgl" to see where they came from and they don't pop up on the list. I'll be darned if I can get rid of them. If anyone has an idea ... let us know.
(We are talking about two trees close to the runway on the starboard side as you land toward the complex.)
D
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Snattisham (7AK2) Hydro and Dam Added - By Thomas Menzel
Here is a great new hydro plant located in an absolutely breathtaking area! Thomas gives you a hydro plant that is actually operating (read the full doc with the history, etc (http://return.mistymoorings.com/alaska_power_project/docs/PP03%20Snettisham%20Hydro.pdf)). Check out the road system and the spillway beyond the dam ... not easy things to pull off for a designer.
It is "up" in the new zip. Thank you Thomas!
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Doug,
If you can tell me what specific file that runway resides in, as well as the coordinates, I'll try my hand at something for you when I get the time.
Steve
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That's the interesting problem, Steve. When I use IS3/Extras/show object from all BGLs, nothing shows. Usually every object is listed, so you know which file to go back to, nothing shows for these 2 trees...so I can't tell where they are coming from.
Doug
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Is the location at a stock ORBX airport or one that was hand created?
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Steve,
Snettisham is an ORBX created airport that comes with SAK located in:
(FSX\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_NA_SAK05_SCENERY\scenery)
8)
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Thanks for the specifics Spud.
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The trees are cut down ! I found a good weed killer. I put an IS3 airfield poly over the trees and they were gone. The new download will come soon but i will integrate the powerline route from Snettisham and Dorothy to the submarine cable in Taku Inlet, I just found a routing map of that.
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Excellent news, Thomas.
You are doing a beautiful job!!
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Beat me to it. I was starting to work on an ADE poly to do the same thing.
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Doug,
just checked Mahoney Lake hydro near Ketchikan.
Dam and power plant site look amazing. I love the watefall nearby Looks really beautiful.
on the small lake in front of the power plant complex there`s a small island with a cabin located on it.
I´m not sure if this cabin is part of mahoney lake scenery. If it is part of it, there`s an Elevation Problem with the cabin. Look at the picture attached.
I also noticed, that Whitman lake hydro is part of the actual APP zip-file.
You wanted to offer it as an separate download as it is not compatiblw with the payware PAKT Airport scenery....I`m user of PAKT payware and can confirm that Whitman hydro is not compatible with PAKT payware on this way... ;)
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Which bgl are you referring to in the APP zip that is Whitman? Can't find it here, probably just not seeing it.
On the cabin, try turning off PAKT ... bet you the problem is PAKT payware! They assured me it didn't got "that far" from the airport. Here's what the cabins looks like for me. And, yes, this is part of the Mahoney Lake Hydro.
Try turning off PAKT (if you can) and see if the cabin is OK. If it is NOT, then I'll have to make Mahoney Lake a separate download too. Here's what I'm seeing:
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Doug,
please apologize!!!
I must have installed the whitman hydro scenery the other day and then completly forgot it.
It's all good with the APP zip-file. It was just stupid me not checking my scsenery library...sorry again.
I can live with this one cabin conflicting with payware PAKT. I think you also created a small bridge for the street crossong the river in this area. I also seems to fit correctly because of PAKT payware aera.
But these two are the only issues I found .... And Mahoney Lake hydro looks beautiful.
I personally can live with these two ones with PAKT payware installed.
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But I should put a NOTAM in that the cabin and bridge could be out of place with the pay ware. How about the upper dam and the hydro plant...are they ok? (Not a prob on Whitman, that's why betas are so confusing...it takes courage! :-)
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Snettisham Hydro Plant:
The update is coming up:
Drawing the powerline was much more work than i thought. I don't understand the algorhythm of that IS3 tool. Sometimes there is a groundpoly sometimes not. Somestimes powertowers are placed close to each other, sometimes big gaps to edit manually. It took me more time than I wanted to spend on that.
The submarine_cable_station_east at Taku Inlet near Dorothy Plant is added with a little dock for maintenance flights with a float plane.
From my part the scenery is finished, if you have suggestions let me know, it's still in beta mode.
th
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New Snettisham Files are "up" with the changes Thomas has mentioned. Let us know if everything is OK.
Doug
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I never really got the power line thing to really work well with IS3 either. Seems like the towers sometimes showed up and sometimes didn't. Too much bother.
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Had the same problem here ... couldn't make it work consistently. Thomas, did you find a "trick" to using this in IS3?
D
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But I should put a NOTAM in that the cabin and bridge could be out of place with the pay ware. How about the upper dam and the hydro plant...are they ok? (Not a prob on Whitman, that's why betas are so confusing...it takes courage! :-)
Upper dam and hydro plant look very good to me.
I tested the helipads. Worked very well....with nice approaches.
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Thomas,
I'd suggest a small helipad at taku inlet station.
Would be much easier bringing in maintenance crews via helo. :)
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Klaus,
No problem with a helipad. I succeeded to land in front of the machine house. I will do it next week.
Concerning the powerline, I added towers manually when I was not content with IS3 result.
Th
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Thank you, Thomas.
The reason for placing helipads is the strange behaviour of helo's in fsx landing on sloped terrain.
If the terrain is sloped only a very few degrees the helo zends to slip downhill....very slow but steady. It is an odd behaviour. Ground friction is bad in fsx when it comes to helo's.
Normally I like sceneries without helipad's because I think this is more realistic as not every cabin or building in Alaska will have it it's own helipad. So when the desired landing zone is a flattened area in fsx, it's also o.k.
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Visited Reynolds Creek Hydro today.
This is another amazing APP Location.
the site looks beautiful and is excellent fit into the landscape.
The approaches to the helipads are very nice...especially the approach to the helipad on the dam.
When landing on the two upper helipads I noticed the helo sunk a few inches in the ground. I attached a screenshot of the helipad on the Dam. The helipad on the construction site was the same.
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Hi Thomas,
checked new Snettisham Hydro file (2015-08-17) today.
scenery is full with amazing eyecandy.....excellent.
I always found default snettisham airfield somekind of boring.....now it`s a beautiful location I highly recommend visiting this place....really a lot has changed!!!
The helipads worked fine and are fitted very nice into the landscape.
I followed the Powerline from snettisham to submarine cable.... are these masts are all handplaced into the landscape? Wow, I understand needing a lot of time placing them.
Nearby the submarine cable station I found an isolated Powerline Mast located in the Waters. I guess, it shouldn`t be there?
It´s located about a mile heading 320 from the submarine cable station (see attached screenshot).
Edit:
Just noticed, one hour after checking snettisham file from 2015-08-17 it was a new zip-file dated 2015-08-19 posted.
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Hi Klaus,
thanks to you. I will have look on it tonight with the misplace tower.
Yes we had to upload again because I gave Doug the wrong zip.
thomas
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Great project guys, very nice work. Thanks.
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When I spawn into the north heli pad the helo is positioned off to the right of the pad on the ground. When I spawn into the other pad the helo is poistioned correctly in the center of the pad.
There is a similar issue at Lake Dorothy helo pad 30. When I spawn into Pad 30 the helo is positioned off to the left and forward of the pad. The other pads at Lake Dorothy and Tyee Lake work fine.
Great project. Enjoying to very much.
Danny
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Hi Danny,
thanks to your remarks. I will have a look on it, perhaps the starting points have to be corrected. Watch the thread.
thomas
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The other Swan Lake Hydro at the head of the Carroll Inlet will come soon. It is close to Lucky Lindys Place where a lot of bush pilots meet!
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Danny ... Thomas has made a correction in the ADEX files for you (and for everyone!). Delete the old APP you have and put in this new one with the new ADEX files. Let us know what you see. The correction is "up" on the Alaska Power Project site.
Thank you
Doug
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Will download and test today. Will let you know how it goes.
Great services.
Regards,
Danny
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Danny, actually you are doing "us" a service. Thomas and I are actually putting up "beta" locations and it is folks like you that help us find the glitches.
Doug
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Cascade Creek Hydro Project - By Doug Linn
As you will recall, I accidently made a location called Swan Lake. When making it, I thought I was on Ruth Lake ... but alas I was wrong. So we went ahead and made a Ruth Lake. But in the meantime, since Swan Lake was not real or even "proposed" as real, I took it down. Then, a funny thing happened when i opened my email. Thomas found the "Cascade Creek Hydro Project" ... Cascade Creek is the creek coming out of Swan Lake! So there "is" a project on that lake. But there is no major dam, it is a "lake tap" where they build a tunnel from the bottom of the lake down to the power plant.
So now you have Cascade Creek Hydro in the downloadable zip at the web page. If you had the old Swan Lake, you must get rid of it or you will have some "not so pretty' problems. Another thing to keep in mind. Thomas is working on another Swan Lake ... but this one down near Ketchikan. So don't get mixed up by all the "swans". Right now, if you have my old Swan Lake ... get rid of it. (It is no longer on the site).
Cascade Creek, like many of these posed its own challenges. The terrain is not the same as in the real world, so we have to "build around" a lot of what ORBX gives us. The "doc" that comes Cascade Creek is the original project plan document for the project. You will see from the pictures and maps, we are "close" but not perfect. This one has float plane docks up at the lake and down and the barge off-loading area. It also has two helipads. Both helipads are going to be a challenge ... tight landing zones and not obvious because of all the trees. (Again, we were trying to duplicate the pictures). But I'm sure folks will have fun with this one too. It is "in" the latest zip file at the web page.
Doug
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Danny, actually you are doing "us" a service. Thomas and I are actually putting up "beta" locations and it is folks like you that help us find the glitches.
Doug
Doug:
I tested all of the helo start points for PP01, PP02, and Tyee. All work fine now. Great job guys.
One question if I may. When looking in the scenery folder I see PP03 thru PP07 bgls. Yet, I don't see those PP0X sites listed in the available airports/locations. Should they be available at this point?
Danny
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No they are not available yet. You will notice Thomas' all have them, mine do not. Learning ADEX :-)
D
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Did some more work on Cascade Creek with the elevations. At a couple of places the creek was running uphill, not good! Getting the elevations for these can be a LOT of "fun". Keeping the newly built road running with the terrain can get confusing as it affects the area near the road too. I also leveled the waste area and tapered if off downhill. Cascade Creek now is mostly done. I also put a helipad at the "tunnel waste area" (just the markings for it). This one is going to be difficult for the helo folks, but realistic according to the pictures we have of it. Also put a stone wall under the auxiliary power plant that was in the are on the front.
Doug
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Looking good.....
Rod
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Question for folks ...
Thomas and I have "most" of the APP hydro plants completed, a very few more to do. Now, what do we "do" with them? These are in lovely locations, usually associated with high mountain lakes and sea-level docks. Helipads everywhere. But RTMM isn't about "locations" ... it is about the journey to and from the locations we create ... the locations give the reason for the journey.
So what ideas do you have for the journey part of APP? We could do dispatches, creating maintenance runs with small groups. We could make straight flight plans from airports to them, you could download the "batch" of flight plans, to/from all of them? Just curious as to how YOU might like to use these new locations.
Doug
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The most logical is to have maintenance/supply runs to the APP sites and rather than dispatches with their inordinate work load to set up, simple flight plans would do the job. However it would help a lot if ALL locations were listed in the Goto Airport section of FSX. Easier to make up your own Flight Plans from wherever you want to start that way.
8)
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Yeah, I'm going to dig out the ADEX instuctions and start working on them ... I agree, the "Go to" feature with the various starting positions are really a help. Also, Thomas has wisely labeled these as "PPxx" so there is no ICAO conflict. I'll start working on it.
Doug
UPDATE: Egads!!! ADE is not intuitive (maybe my brain is wired backwards). Anyway, I made an "Adex" for PP11 Cascade Creek Hydro ... it is "up". It seems to work. I'm not sure you can "name" the helipads, and I haven't figured out a water start for the lake. (Started a thread on this under Help/Troubleshooting so not to go off topic here). But my first ADEX is "up" ... we'll see if it works for people.
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Agree with Spud on the maintenance/runs..to be added among the plethora of scenarios RTMM already offers. For helos, sling loadable objects might be a good feature but might require another skillset among our talented developers here 8) Another suggestion might be a multiplayer feature to accommodate RTMM pilots (e.g. free multiplatform, multiplayer server such as DAFSIM, not necessarily VA ) who wish to interact with other members and make our hobby more immersive and fun through group bush flights, sharing of troubleshooting tips through Teamspeak, etc. for those who may be interested. Sometimes flying alone becomes boring after a while...Just ideas.. 8 ;)
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Good ideas, keep them coming, we will see what we can do but keep the "complication" relatively low! :-)
Swan Lake Hydro - By Thomas Menzel
Well, Thomas has done it again. There is a beautiful new hydro facility up on the web in the zip file. It is Swan Lake Hydro. It is "up" the channel from Lucky Lindy's Place (PF05). It's ICAO is PP05. There is a lot of detail in this one and this one is actually operating. (See the doc that comes with it). Great addition from Thomas.
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Everybody please keep in mind ... we are trying something different with the Alaska Power Project. We are letting you see how it is made, mistakes and all. For those of you who enjoy this sort of thing and have given us comments ... you'll notice we are correcting them as quickly as we can after you spot the problem(s). It is how "beta" works and it is how this community works best. We are not a "for profit" site where everything (that you pay for!) will come to you neatly packaged and error free. We are just having fun, and frankly, barely making ends meet financially. Not to say we are going to have a problem financially, but we want people NOT to expect $100 dollars' worth of quality from a FREE package.
Please don't hesitate to say something if you see something ... that is what this particular thread is all about. You won't hurt our feelings ... our goal is to give you the best FREE product we can ... and you are helping with that process.
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Alaska Power Project (APP) vegetation not adapted to seasons?
Really no easy job to implement this excellent idea and for sure there are new great challenges for the designers Doug and Thomas.
The realization is growing day by day with great success. Thanks for that.
Nevertheless there are some "problems" to report.
Latley I flew these areas during winter time and to my surprise trees and bushes in the designed APP areas didn't change their color. They all are still in full green.
As long as you visit the areas during spring, summer and fall saisons it's all ok.
If you fly in winter time these areas look a bit like "oasis" because the vegetation didn't change. It's not only the conifers and bushes that still wear their summer dress also some deciduous trees and flowers are still blooming.
Additionally occasionally some "strange plants" that do not grow in this area should not be used.
See 2 examples in attached screenshots
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Dieter,
I already had some thoghts about the "seasons". You are absolutly right, we should not have green oasis in alaska wintertime. My suggestion is to finish up the major work with the locations and then have a look for detail fixing again.
Th
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Agree. I've got one more to do (Triangle Lake) and now I'm making ADEX for the ones I've made. We can come back and work on this problem. I really do not want to mess with season switchers on these...they are too far-flung...not like changing a couple of trees around a cabin 4 different ways.
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Keep in mind that all of this stuff is free and made by dedicated people in their spare time just for the love of it. If it doesn't work in all seasons, then jst don't visit in those seasons. As for the non-native plants, only a botanist would probably notice upon micro inspection.
(Off of my soapbox.)
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Thanks Steve ... Thomas and I can work on these anomalies. I'm thinking put in an evergreen that is not so green and the problem would be solved. Thomas can take out the "swamp scrub" and the "blooming trees" and I think we'll be ok. One thing clear, I think we should be designing things for winter. I usually have my sim set on whatever season it is. And, building these in summer/fall ... they show up wrong in winter. If we build them using winter "on" .. then I think the other 3 seasons will work fine.
For these projects, we are talking about some fairly extensive land areas, so I don't want to get into a season switcher and be switching out 100 trees 4 times ... nope (there are fish to catch!) :-) And most of the forests in this area are coniferous anyway, so will not show a season change. Dieter's comments are good ones, and something Thomas and I will work on. This is why we tried "opening up" a beta like this for people to "see." I'm betting some have NO appreciation for what goes into making one of these. It's easy to click on the zip file, open and install it ... the hard part is putting something INTO that zip file! :-)
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UPDate on Vegetation at Cascade Creek Hydro
I took out all of the Spruce tree objects, which are "greener" and are better suited for summer. I replaced them with the Veg TC Norway Spruce "sets and singles". When these are placed within an ORBX "set" there is no difference. There are some sets with snow on them, and ORBX uses both ... but in the SAME region in the same season. Which is actually very realistic ... snow never falls precisely everywhere and with the mountainous terrain, there will be differences in barometric pressure and snowfall. If you look at the screen shots below, you can see the "differences" built into the ORBX terrain.
Pic A ... this is the updated Cascade Creek with the Spruce trees gone and the new TC Norway Spruce sets replacing them. You can see how ORBX uses different trees (some with snow on them, some not) in various areas. I've pointed out what is "RTMM" and what is "ORBX."
Pic B ... this is with no RTMM (except a little cabin lower right). You can see how ORBX terrain changes with areas, not all the trees are "snow covered" ... and the objects vary by "area." The new Cascades Creek reflects this same terrain coloring.
Pic C ... a "single" and a "set" of Norway Spruce objects are set into the ORBX scenery. The arrows show the two entries, all the other trees around it are what comes with the ORBX terrain.
Conclusion: We can make it look better by not using the Spruce objects (too green), replacing it with the TC Norway Spruce object, singles and sets. The "islands" of green are typical of the area ... some trees have snow, some do not. RTMM's objects now better match ORBX. (I'll do the same for the other APP scenery locations and update as I add the ADEX folders ... indicating changes on the Construction Log.
Doug
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@ualani
I never ever expected a statement like this from an RTMM Team Member!
Keep in mind that all of this stuff is free and made by dedicated people in their spare time just for the love of it. If it doesn't work in all seasons, then just don't visit in those seasons. As for the non-native plants, only a botanist would probably notice upon micro inspection.
If this proposal wasn't so sad one could almost laugh about it.
I cannot accept this and it makes a mockery out of RTMM scenery policy!
As a team member you know about RTMM's own given high standards and the meaning of quality control (QC).
Reminder please see here:
"Rules and Regs" for Authors Contributing to Return to Misty Moorings
http://return.mistymoorings.com/about/#c
especially no. 4
I also might remember:
In the past I introduced several Mike Broemme freeware sceneries to the RTMM Team for QC and you belonged to the QC team on more than one occasion.
Do you remember how these sceneries were "taken into pieces" checking for "problems" (this is weak expression for it) to guarantee RTMM's high requirements (so called "RTMM standard") to the software that is intended to be published to the users.
I assume you won't apply double standards.
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Hi Dieter ... we are fixing it as we go and the process is working fine. Look at the progress we've made just this morning per your suggestion two hours ago. We will try to be the best we can be, Steve is pointing out that for a bunch of volunteers, with no pay for incentive, just love of the project, there will be some anomalies. On a project like APP, where we are not giving people the "final" product, but rather letting them watch the "process", there will be some screwy moments like this one. Not a problem!
This latest example is a good one for people watching. You gave us a qualified opinion on something we might be able to do better ... within two hours of your post ... it is fixed ... as good as I can fix it, with pictures showing the differences, and the new file added up on the web. This is what it is all about ... this is how we get "close to perfect." Being a good German ... I bet you've been to a sausage factory ... not a pretty sight, but when finished and on the breakfast plate in front of you, there is nothing in the world like it. (I had a dumb bowl of cereal this morning!). The process isn't so pretty, but the result can be!
With this project we hope we are "teaching" people about how these things are made and they don't just pop out of a zip file by themselves. Hopefully, "airing" our errors (and look at mine where I built a dam on the wrong (damn) lake!). But we smile, correct it and move on. People need to see the "work" and "errors" that goes into something like this. It is a huge effort ... hours of time involved. There are two key parts, (1) your observations, and (2) our attempt at corrections. It is a wonderful process, and it is working. thanks to folks like you. we made progress this morning ... progress to be proud of. Also learned some lessons, best to make these things with the winter season "on." Also watch the "kinds" of vegetation that would not work in all seasons. Lessons learned, hours saved in the future. Progress!!
Doug
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@ualani
I never ever expected a statement like this from an RTMM Team Member!
Quote
Keep in mind that all of this stuff is free and made by dedicated people in their spare time just for the love of it. If it doesn't work in all seasons, then just don't visit in those seasons. As for the non-native plants, only a botanist would probably notice upon micro inspection.
If this proposal wasn't so sad one could almost laugh about it.
I cannot accept this and it makes a mockery out of RTMM scenery policy!
Hi Dieter,
Steve's personal opinions do not represent the opinions of the team as a whole. ;)
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@Doug,
your reaction on my input problem report - starting to change the problem zones with a skilled ability - is more than admirable, thanks for your engagement.
But take your time, this isn't necessary to do it at once.
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But I guess I'm just "put together" that way ... when something isn't right, it really bugs me until I can get a solution for it. If I don't "move" on it ... I try to solve the problem while I'm trying to sleep! Instead of counting sheep, I'm counting the damned spruce trees and wonder why I wake up tired! :-) Last night I dreamed I couldn't connect a taxiway in ADE without it showing on the water (which is actually happening). We are all going to be candidates for the mental ward before long! :-) Keep the suggestions coming Dieter ... when we can act on them, it makes everything better. Going back now to Mahoney Lake and changing out the trees.
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Opinions like Women are all "different". (viva la difference) The 'open development' technique with the APP will help make the scenery as good as skills and limitation can allow. Dieter's observations on the poor winter textures is being addressed and will help in future projects. Of course foliage models are not infinite and more importantly 'green plants' to a lot of people look fine in nice summer weather. Naturally Palm Trees in Alaska would raise a red flag. Shrubbery and low plants may be out of place but unless your botanically savvy it may get used because 'it looks good there' so unless it is completely out of place we shouldn't be too critical. Staying green and blooming in the dead of Alaska winter is, of course, just not right and needs to be addressed when discovered. (and has been in this case).
8)
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Not going to get into a peeing contest here nor examine each and every scenery under a magnifying glass. End of my comments regarding this.
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The following heli pad start positions need adjusted:
Cascade Lake:
Pad 2: Starts in the water
Reynolds Creek:
Pad 2: Hard point is below pad surface, helo skids sink below the pad surface.
Mahoney Lake:
Pad 2: Hard point is below pad surface, helo skids sink below the pad surface.
Things are looking really good.
Thanks again for the scenary.
Regards,
Danny
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Thank you Danny ...
Cascade Lake, Helipad repositioned
Mahoney Lake, helipad object changed
Reynolds Creek, helipad object changed
this should stop the helicopter runners from sinking into the pad ... that object's surface is not hard at the very top. We'll take it out of use for RTMM.
The corrected zip is "up".
Doug
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Doug,
BOING! You just solved answered the "why" question about that helipad that the aircraft sinks into. The hardened part of the surface for that object has the wrong placement and needs to be raised. If you tell me what object that helipad is, I could probably fix it for future use.
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More adjustments needed on the following heli pads:
Mahoney Lake, Reynolds Creek, and Cascade Lake, Pad 2: hard point is above the pad surface, so, heli skids are about 3 feet above the helipad surface.
Thanks again,
Danny
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Danny .. saw the same thing, those platforms are not reliable, not sure why, could be the "altitude bug" P3D has, not sure. Changed them all out to concrete pads. They seem all ok now. Also changed the PP10 ADEX (Airport) completely, now has a working dock and taxiway to runway. The "midway" helipad is there and can be used, but it is not part of the "airport". Check it out and see what you think. The changes are "up" on the new zip at the web page.
Doug
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Reynolds and Mahoney work fine. Cascade is not longer in the airport list. Did you leave it out this time?
Danny
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Danny ... check it now, I revamped it a little, also the name was "Cascades" (with an s), so I fixed that too. It is "up" now.
D
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ADE Airports Created for PP06 and PP07 (Ruth Lake and Theyer Creek).
Now all of the locations presently in place have "airports/locations" that you can find with the "Go to Airport"
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Doug:
Everything works great.
Thanks for your quickly response.
Regards,
Danny
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Well thank YOU for helping us! We were hoping folks might enjoy playing with a "beta" ... although they can be annoying with all the changes. You've held up very well, my friend! It won't be too long and we can put this one to bed and have a "grand opening." (And a round of beers at Misty's Place!)
Doug
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Hail to Doug and the RTMM scenery gurus! 8) 8) 8)
... And free helo tour rides to the dams and power plants from PF20 c/o RCFlyer during the upcoming open house! Danny, I'll swap my day's worth of charter avgas with a 6-pack a Misty's bar to help you with that endeavor... ;D
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Some corrections necessary at
- PP11 bushes in the air
- PP10 water rwy bleeding through
- PP07 water rwy bleeding through
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Doug or Thomas,
Using ADE, change the water runway properties to "transparent" in the checkbox. I think this might solve the issue. I've never seen a visible water runway on the water before, no lees it being a different color than standard water! I wonder how that happened?
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Will do, we are on it. Dieter, thank you! I'll be back here with corrections soon.
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Helipad Beta Test ...
Steve Weinkamer has done an examination of the helicopter land pad that was giving us problems with elevation differences. He has created a "modified" object from the original. For anyone interested, we put the new object in at Cascade Lake Hydro where there are 3 helipads at different altitudes. To check if this works, go to the APP page and look at the 09.02.2015 - 12:30 PM entry. You will find a link for a zip file there. There is a readme.txt file inside the zip that tells you how to place this new object so you can try it out. We are VERY interested in your feedback, so let us know here what you see if you try this.
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Adjustments ...
Thanks to Dieter's Screenshots ... I lowered the bushes at the Cascade Creek Power Plant fence. (Found one more in that area elevated). Changed the ADE files for PP10 and PP07 to make the taxiways transparent. So those should be fixed now with the 09.02.2015 - 1:02 PM update to the APP zip.
Important note to folks viewing this. This is how a "beta" works. These programs can be very detailed, especially the APP locations with elevation changes, etc. The original designers will do the best they can, but after a while at the computer your eyes go numb! You just don't see things because you are so used to looking at other things. This is where the extra pairs of eyes come in to make the beta work. Our "Spud" does 99% of this work for us ... so most of you will not have to worry about seeing corrections like you are seeing here (Thank you Spud!). But we wanted you to see first hand how these things are created and give anyone interested a chance to jump in with comments, suggestions and certainly error catches. Dieter found three important ones ... posted them, and we went after them. This is how it works. Betas can be aggravating in that they can be confusing and have lots of downloads and replacements ... it is the nature of the beast. So for those of you participating, thank you for the patience and I hope you are getting an "inside view" at what goes on to make something like this happen. Keep the feedback coming ... that's what will make this as "near perfect" as we can get it.
Doug
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Doug,
The read me in the zip for the corrected chopper pads bgl needs a revision, and I sent you a revised one. Anyone reading this post should hold off on the fore mentioned download until further notice. (The read me refers to an undefined location and is confusing.)
Steve
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Just noticed there is much progress at APP.....new sites are included. :)
great news about the corrected chopper pad...can´t wait for first approach.
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Doug,
The read me in the zip for the corrected chopper pads bgl needs a revision, and I sent you a revised one. Anyone reading this post should hold off on the fore mentioned download until further notice. (The read me refers to an undefined location and is confusing.)
Steve
Steve,
I just logged on to ask about the xxxx.bgl you mentioned cause I looked and looked but no file!
Spud
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Got the new readme up there in the little "fix" zip.
Doug
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Just checked all three heli pads at Cascade and all three work great.
Good Jobs guys.
Danny
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Thanks for the feedback Danny. Now we need to come up with a way to release the corrected object to the community since it will have to replace the one already in the RTMM library. Anybody have any thoughts on how you think we could do this without creating confusion?
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Found a slight glitch at PP08; a sunken island.
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Do you have PAKT Payware?
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Thanks for the feedback Danny. Now we need to come up with a way to release the corrected object to the community since it will have to replace the one already in the RTMM library. Anybody have any thoughts on how you think we could do this without creating confusion?
For now, make the corrected object a new object (new unique GUID and name (eg. app_pad_1) and make a copy of the textures it calls, create a mini object library with the new object and associated textures and put them into the Alaska Power Project Scenery and Texture folders and then replace the old object with the new object in the affected Alaska Power Project Sceneries using IS, and all will be right with the next release of an update to the power project.
Rod
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Steve, the little work boat u made could go there too. (Thanks Rod). When this is dine, then u should go back to cascade creek and put the APP helipads in, replacing what is there, right?
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Rod,
I was thinking along the same lines as you, but wanted to see if anybody had any other suggestions. At this point I'll just go ahead and do it that way.
Doug,
If you're talking about the JD LINN, it's already in the library. That's the only work boat that I've made so far.
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I thought you made a smaller version of it for Thomas?
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Nope. Just reduced it to about 45% in IS, placed it for demo purposes, and then took a screenshot of it for you guys.
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Do you have PAKT Payware?
Yes.
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That cabin and the bridge are screwy with the payware. Got an idea, will try it this afternoon.
D
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Doug,
Sent you a package containing the fixed chopper pad to put into your next release of the APP scenery and texture folders.
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It will be up this afternoon. Steve look at the bridge area near that sunken cabin and give me a screenshot if it is screwy ( with PAKT Payware).
D
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Found a slight glitch at PP08; a sunken island.
I already reported about this sunken cabin and the nearby Bridge in an earlier post two weeks ago.
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Triangle Lake Hydro - By Doug Linn
Triangle Lake hydro is "beta" and up on the site. It is designated as PP12 (ICAO). This was an interesting one to build as there is a lot of construction in three different areas. Also, there is a creek running down from the spillway (which no one will notice) that took a couple of hours to create, it was not there before. this is a good example of a "Tap" hydro project. Hassler Lake is basically three sided, with two sides being significant, but one side is very low. If that low area is dammed up, then the natural enclosure around the lake becomes the walls for a higher lake. Then the lake is "tapped" with a penstock that runs underground (because of the cold temperatures) down to the hydro plant at Hassler Inlet. This one has the new helipad object.
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"Maybe" a fix?
I've got a NOTAM on Mahoney Lake warning folks if they have PAKT payware they will have a problem not only with the cabin but a bridge nearby.
Notam #1: A small cabin on an island in Mahoney Lake and a bridge crossing a stream will be misplaced if you have PAKT PayWare Installed
But I would like for you to try looking at the cabin now ... I tried something, and I don't know if it will work or not because it looks OK for me with the change, but I do not have PAKT Payware. So see if you see a change in the cabin. If you do, take a screen shot of the bridge area (follow the road running by the cabin). This is worth a try, but I'm flying blind.
Doug
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Hi,
I checked today starting free flights in FSX DX10 from the following helipads:
PP01, PP02, PP04, PP05, PP06, PP07, PP08, PP10, PP11 and the new PP12
results are:
PP01 helipad N= helicopter is set some feet to high and falls down on the ground
PP02 helipad 1= helicopter is set some feet to high and falls down on the ground
PP04 helipad E= helicopter is set some feet to high and falls down on the ground
PP11 helipad 2= helicopter is set some feet to high and falls down on the ground
PP12 helipad 2= helicopter is floating just two inches about the ground
PP12 helipad 3= helicopter is sunk just two inches in the ground
Do others get the same results?
All other helipads worked very fine for me!!
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Let us know which zip you were on. Today I changed a bunch of them.
D
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Doug,
PP01 - PP11 were testet with zipfile from 2015-09-02 1:02 PM.
PP12 was tested with zipfile from 2015-09-03 with triangle lake hydro introduced and corrected helipad placed there.
Just noticed, app zipfile is again new with added corrected helipad to all locations. I did test this file so far.
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Keep letting us know. For the record, we are not doing anything different with these locations. The cement pads seem the most reliable, but it seems none of them are perfect. The falling through is a problem I've experienced using ADE to place starting points. Steve has been able to make some of the high peak starting locations work, I haven't had luck at it yet.
Also let me know if that sunken cabin fix worked..
Doug
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Hi Doug,
I have the payware PAKT installed in my P3Dv2.5 sim. I just downloaded and installed the latest APP folder. I loaded into PP08, taxied to the little island and it was still sunken. No noticeable change from when I first observed this problem on the 28th. I didn't get to the "bridge" before my sim crashed from memory overload. My settings are apparently too high for this area. I'm going back in . . .
Ok, I've reloaded with lower settings.
I loaded into the parking space at the dock. My amphib is wheels down, on top of the water. There is an invisible deck under me. Continuing on . . .
(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/jeff3163/MOON/Flight%20Simulator%20X%20Files/2015/Prepar3D%202015-09-03%2017-09-48-09.jpg~original)
Elevated shoreline.
(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/jeff3163/MOON/Flight%20Simulator%20X%20Files/2015/Prepar3D%202015-09-03%2017-18-36-46.jpg~original)
The island.
(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/jeff3163/MOON/Flight%20Simulator%20X%20Files/2015/Prepar3D%202015-09-03%2017-19-27-66.jpg~original)
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I'll go after that runway, I know what's wrong, same prob at PP08 before. Thank you!
Update ... Fixed the Mahoney Lake "concrete" taxiway. That is a funny "quirk" of ADE. You need to "connect" the dock to the runway with a taxiway. You draw a line connecting them. But if you draw the line from the parking dock to the runway ... the taxiway is concrete! If you draw the line from the runway to the Parking Dock, the taxiway is water. You can't seem to "edit" that, so you delete the taxiway and connect it starting at the runway and then to the parking dock.
I have a lot to learn about ADE, but at least I'm starting to make some sense of it. The one's I've made generally seem to be working ... as soon as you mentioned it Jeff, I knew exactly what it was and had the new file up in about 2 minutes! But the first time it happened (yesterday), it was 2 hours trying to fix it ... learning curves! :-) (Do they get steeper with technology, or our age?)
To try to fix the island problem, I had put a flatten onto that cabin area and raised it about 1 meter off the water, thinking that would "fix" the problem. Darned sorry that didn't work. In the latest upload, I've taken the cabin objects off that little island. I also took out the flatten that didn't work. So now it is just as it was before I did anything to it. (Below is how it "should" have looked and how it looks now). I'd like to know what you folks are seeing (with PAKT PayWare) now. Is there still a hole there?
Doug
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The problem is most likely in Orbx PAKT/SP1 software itself and has nothing to do with APP.
I deactvated APP and my results are the same as in Jeff's screenshots no. 2 and 3 (without APP objects of course): elevated shoreline and deep hole in the little island.
(Tested in FSX)
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Just checked latest APP version this morning:
- the hole is still there (but no objects to be seen anymore)
- bridge (see attached picture)
(in FSX plus PAKT/SP1)
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Ok, that confirms it. Maybe we should ask them to fix the PAKT pay ware. If they could fix that and take their terrain changes out of the Herring Bay Area we would be home free. All they have to do is not put anything in those areas...the original was fine. Thank you. I think I'll put the cabin back on the island ... And make it a separate bgl with the bridge. If people want it, it will be there. If they don't. I'll instruct in a readme how to turn it "off." I couldn't imagine putting an object could make a hole in the ground. Thanks Dieter!
Doug
PS. Dieter, could you give one more screenshot? The island with about the same perspective as my uninhabited island shot, but with PAKT pay ware, so to show the hole there naturally with it on. I'll then put that into a readme and also drop a note to Holger.
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Noticed a couple of ORBX objects are being used a PP02. It's easy to accidentally let a few get by.
safety_barrier_10
grass_patch_lg_level3
Also noticed small object elevation glitches at PP01 at helipad N
Bleed through at PP02
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PP04 (sealevel.bgl)
Object being used from (no longer permitted for further use) CeyX library:
Old_Barn
PP04 (lakelevel.bgl)
More CeyX objects:
abandoned house
House_Ruin_1
Old_Barn
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PP011
Another CeyX object:
Pier_30m
BTW, I'm using IS to check these using the the "?" function that lists libraries and objects used.
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Thank you Steve ... keep them coming, Thomas and I will work on them and correct them. He will work on his, I on mine.
Mahoney Lake Island Problem with PAKT SP2 ....
People are complaining that the cabin on the island in Mahoney Lake (Mahoney Lake Hydro (PP08) is in a hole and the bridge area (outfall of Mahoney Lake) is improperly configured. The root cause of this is the PAKT SP2 (pay ware addon), creates a hole in the center of that island and disfigures the terrain contour where the outfall of Mahoney Lake leaves the lake and traverses to the ocean. I've made a special BGL that puts in the bridge and the island cabin landscaping ... PP08_Mahoney_Island_and_bridge.bgl ... if you have PAKT Payware, you can change ".bgl" to ".off" on this file in the APP folder and the landscaping will go away and you will be left with the original PAKT paware terrain (a hole in the water). You can download a document explaining this at the Mahoney Lake Location on the APP web page. (PS Thank you Dieter for the screenshots).
Doug
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Maybe you could cover it with a ground poly. ??? I was just playing with that idea, and stretched a ground poly across the hole. I need to work on lining it up with the shoreline better, but I think it will work. I realize Doug can't do this, because he can't see the hole. :-\
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But if you can get it covered ok, and give me the bgl for it, I can slip it in somehow.
Doug
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I reloaded my sim and the ground poly I made doesn't show up. :'( If I get it working, I'll send it to you. :-\
I can see it in IS3, but not with it off. This is what I'm working with.
(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/jeff3163/MOON/Flight%20Simulator%20X%20Files/2015/Prepar3D%202015-09-04%2013-54-42-89.jpg~original)
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Don't think ground poly will do it....needs flatten file. I can take a look at it.
Rod
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Thanks Rod. 8)
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flown today with app zip-file dated 09.04.2015 2:28 PM
At PP08 I deactivated the bgl for the cabin and Bridge (I have ORBX PAKT installed) and worked as Doug explained. No Cabin and no Bridge, only the ORBX holes are visible
At PP12 Triangle Lake Hydro two things you might like to look at (see attached Pictures):
- cargo vessel seems to stuck in the Pier
- load has damaged the truck it is carried
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Hi all,
I believe I have a universal fix for all users for the PP08 location of the Alaska Power Project.
I have attached a file for you to add to your Power Project Scenery folder which, for the Payware PAKT users, should correct the elevation issues at PP08 along the lake by the power plant operation, the elevation of the island with the cabin and the road that goes over the bridge area at the lake outflow point. For the non PAKT Payware users, this added file smooths out elevations along the lake and introduces a better roadway transition across the bridge and up the mountain. See bridge before and after picture below.
This added file will be included in the main Alaska Power package once Doug is back on his main computer...in a few days. For now you can get it using the link below.
Since you are all beta testers......let me know if there are any significant problems.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k2avtplrpwr8b84/CVX_PP08_flatten_RPJ.BGL?dl=0
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/k2avtplrpwr8b84/CVX_PP08_flatten_RPJ.BGL?dl=0)
Rod
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@Rod
hole and elevated shores have disappeared.
Tested in FSX and P3D with PAKT_SP1 installed.
Thanks for this flatten fix file.
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Thanks Rod! 8)
(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/jeff3163/MOON/Flight%20Simulator%20X%20Files/2015/Prepar3D%202015-09-05%2016-38-13-53.jpg~original)
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THanks Rod!
I can confirm your patch is working beautiful!! :)
Attached is what I see having PAKT payware 1.15 installed from Cockpit views.
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When I get back to the computer, I'll get the fix included in the zip, next Friday. Thank you Rod, it looks great.
Doug
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Thanks all for your responses. Spud also sent me a note letting me know that it improved things on his FSX system also. The next version of APP that comes out will include this flatten file so no one will have to worry about turning a select .bgl off to get PP08 to look good in the future.
Rod
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Steve,
thanks for your hints for forbidden objects!
PP01: deleted: swamp vegetation sets, ORBX objects and replaced with others, added some other veg and objects.
PP02: deleted: ORBX objects and replaced with others, corrected elevation probs of objects.
PP04: deleted CeyXLib objects and replaced them.
When Doug is back to "work" it will be in the ZIP.
thomas
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I'm glad we are doing one of these in the open so folks can see all the craziness involved. Amazing how the whole team jumps in and contributes to the whole "product." It is no wonder RTMM remains so successful with all the expertise of this team. (Thank you all!)
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Hi Doug,
when checking PP06 Ruth lake (latest APP-file dated 2015-09-04 7:16 PM) I found this guy near the loer helipad sunk with his feet in the ground.
Just see the attached screenie. JUst a small thing, but I´m sure you want to fix it.
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Doug,
at PP11 Cascade Creek I see still problems with the helipads there.
I landed there sunk into the ground again (see attached screenies):
Picture 1 Shows what I see with helo after touchdown on the two lower heli-pads.
Picture 2 Shows helo after touchdown on the upper heli-pad at the dam.
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Klaus,
You are right about the sunken skids at the chopper pad at PP11. Something strange going on because using same chopper pad object at other locations the skids sit on the surface as they should be. I have no idea why. This thing is a giant pain in the neck.
Steve
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O.k.....may be we can use there the concrete helipad or the wooden helipad we have in other sceneries , too?
I like PP11 so much....would be too bad having no helipads there. :'(
the combination with pp06 and the nearby Petersburg as a bigger hub makes it an excellent location for the heliguys. :)
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Ruth Lake ... Man near helipad elevation fixed. Concrete pads put in at Cascade Creek.
Doug
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Great!! Thank you, Doug! :)
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I'm coming through all the changes in my inbox, will upload a new APP zip later with it all together. Notam will follow.
D
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Changes made to APP ...
1. PP12 Helipad fixed (Thank you Steve)
2. Reynolds Creek Taxiway looked at, seems OK. (Spud?)
3. PP06 Ruth Lake, man with feet in ground elevated (thank you Corbu)
4. New barge object created by Steve W placed in APP ... will be placing new barges later this afternoon.
If there is anything I missed while on my little vacation, let me know.
Doug
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Steve's Workboats ...
Steve W has made us a great new object that will be very useful in RTMM. It is a flat bottom barge type boat and you can put any cargo/passengers in/on it that you want. So it is very versatile for many different situations from logging, to refuse, to misc. boxes, etc. I put several into the "construction" scenery locations. Here is one at Thayer Creek Hydro picking up the logs that were cleared from along the creek. (Great "object" Steve!!!)
Doug
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Beautiful!!!!
The workboat is really excellent!!
Thank you, Steve!
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@Doug
Just for info:
Rod's flatten fix "CVX_PP08_flatten_RPJ.BGL" has not yet been integrated into "Alaska Power Project.zip"
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Thank you, I'll get that in this morning.
Doug
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Good job, Steve W.!
Rod
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The "fix" for the sunken cabin and the bad bridge area for Mahoney Lake is now "in" the APP.zip. (Thank you Rod, that really works great)
Also the "hard" taxiway at PP10 (Reynolds Creek) is now water and the lines are gone on the water surface.
Both of these are "up" in the 09.12.2015 10:00am zip.
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Hello all of you,
recently we had some problems with starting position from "active runway" in the GTA (go to airport) dialog. Active runways started from the helipad >:(. So we added runways to solve this prob.
Has anybody an idea for what ADE refers an active runway?
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Will send you email....
Rod
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Steve W's Industrial Cranes added to APP
Steve has converted some great Industrial Crane objects that we can use for logging operations and for placing on the new workboat he made us. I've added several of these to the workboats we put in earlier. They work great! Thank you Steve.
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PP13 - Annex Creek Hydro by Thomas Menzel ...
Added to APP. This is another great contribution by Thomas. There is a lot of detail, especially in the river-scaping coming down from the lake. This one is a great addition to the APP set.
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Just noticed a little glitch at PP07. Water runway bleed through of some sort???
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That's what we needed...Spud is seeing this too. I don't see it. I'm going to rip out the ADE and start over on PP07. Thank you Steve, that's what we needed. Can you take a look at the dock start for Whitman Lake? But only if you do not have PAKT Payware.
Doug
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PP07 Runway Problem ...
OK,I ripped out the taxiways from the water runway to the dock. The dock is an "orphan" but it doesn't matter since we won't be running AI traffic at these. So the new ADE is "up" with PP07 modified (Thayer Creek). Let me know what you see.
Doug
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I do have PAKT payware.
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Ok, don't mess with Whitman, it will be a mess for you.
Would like for anyone without the PAKT payware to give Whitman Lake (PP09) a try...it has to be downloaded separately. We need to check the helipad in the dam and the parking dock up at the lake.
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PP07 water issue is fixed now. Nice to see my newly created new loader in use on the shore!
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Doug,
PP13 has several objects in it from the CeyX libraries which we aren't allowed to use:
CX_River_Houses_1
River_House_green_1
RTMM_DHC2.bgl
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PP05 still has one of Xavier's boats in it that we can't use.
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Thomas has given us an update on starts for Goat Lake, PP01 ... also a readme doc for the site. They are both
up in the new zip.
Doug
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Added documents (readme) to Tyee Lake and Swan Lake. Changed out some objects in several of the earlier locations, added the "no float planes" sign to Reynolds Creek.
Sometimes we need to "cross" a shoreline. That shoreline is "hard", so a float plane will hang up on it. In the case of Reynolds Creek, we have such an area going from the upper lake into Rich's Pond where the intake for the penstock is located. Rich's Pond is too small to land on, so you land on the lake. But if you are in a float plane, you will not be able to cross that shoreline into Rich's Pond. If you have an amphibian, you can put wheels down and cross it safely. Steve W made us a "no float planes" sign that we can put into an area like this that will warn people about the "hard surface." We have added it to Reynolds Lake. (Thank you Steve!)
Doug
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Hi,
at Goat Lake hydro PP01 I see this structure in the river just under the lower hydro plant site.
I don`t know if it`s scenery related. Does anybody else see it?
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Yes, that is fog.
D
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Does anyone else have a z-fighting, texture flickering issues at PP08 and PP10?
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Floaters etc. at PP01.
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I confirm all above mentioned problems (Steve).
(System: FSX)
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I confirm all above mentioned problems (Steve).
(System: FSX)
Me, too!!
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Hi Steve,
Floaters corrected at Goat lake, will be up soon.
Th
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The new file is "up" ... floaters are "grounded." I've begun to create a small series of "dispatches" that will give people a quick route to "go see" the APP sites. These will be simple and easy to follow. With the PPxx we've created for each of the sites, we'll be using the GPS rather than a flight plan. (Maps will be available, but no autopilot for these!).
These locations are going to be amazing for the helicopter people ... lots of elevation changes and tricky approaches, and we've put (sort of unrealistically), helipads everywhere! We know most of the folks flying the helos up there can land them anywhere, but this helps our people "find" where to land.
There will be a slightly altered instruction for the float plane people. Although you can land out on the water at many of these sites, the real flying is going to be in landing on the lakes and reservoirs. The first one, Goat Lake, is a good example. No place to land near the plant, so only the reservoir is available. It is a small lake and if you fly first over the plant, a hard left turn and quick landing. Many of the lakes and reservoirs are VERY short and will take some skill to safely land and take off from.
Bottom line, these are going to be fun for both genres of aircraft. In the "spirit" of this project, those of you helping us with the beta. Don't hesitate to "weigh in" on the dispatches as we make them. Is there more we need to say about a site's landing spots, or the trip to it, etc? (I don't fly helicopters, so I'm like a patient telling a doctor how to do a heart operation!) So "corrections" are welcome ... anything you want to add to make a dispatch better, let us know.
Doug
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I've finished the "outline" for the second dispatch ... for the Juneau area, that covers 4 hydro plants. You can see the D02 "skeleton" on the new dispatch table on the APP page. Note that Salmon Creek does not yet exist, Thomas is still building it. I'll try to get the rest of the dispatches "outlined", then we'll start flying them and adding details to these "skeletons." The details might be warnings about a high tree or tower for a helipad, or a tricky approach for a short reservoir landing, etc. The idea is to make them more "human."
When the dispatches are finished, I'll make a pdf of them adding in the maps so a person could download it and have all the dispatches on the desktop ready to fly them.
When we get further into this, I really could use some help from the heli folks. What I'll be looking for is the "details" from the heli point of view. I can handle the float plane side, but I'll miss details that should probably be added to the heli side of the dispatches.
Doug
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Takatz Lake Hydro - By Doug Linn
Spent the day on this one and have it "up" in the zip. This is (like all of them) interesting. I included the original map from their document and the original PDF for the project so you can see how closely we follow their plan. All of the access roads are present, along with the access road to the dam and to the materials handling dock. This one is fairly "spread out", typical of these. You will see a 1000 foot penstock coming out of the side of the mountain. They built a tunnel from the lake (lake tap) down to the hydro plant, then capped it with a penstock that goes into a two-generator plant. There are two dams in this one. The second dam is called a "saddle dam" ... there was a low spot just to the side of the dam that would have "let out the water" if the water was raised 200 feet. So a saddle dam was placed in that "saddle." You can still see them clearing away some trees that will be flooded. (Lots of fun altering the terrain for this one!).
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PP09 - Whitman Lake
Fixed the dock start so the tail of the aircraft doesn't hang over the dam. Made a longer dock and put the start point out on the end. Also had fixed the 026 starting position for the runway (which started on a hillside). Don't foget with this one you MUST download the update from the zip button in the "Whitman Lake" scenery location on the page ... it is NOT part of the APP zip (we kept it separate because it conflicts with PAKT Pay ware).
PP15 - Takatz Lake Hydro
Did some small "clean up" to the sites. Put in Thomas's new penstock that is slanted. We now have them slanted at several angles.
For those of you not knowing how these work. You have a lake or reservoir at a higher elevation (in this case 800 feet). You put a dam where the water runs out of the lake and raise the water level, (also the head pressure, the energy needed to drive the turbines far below). Then you put a "drain" (called a lake tap) in the bottom of the lake and dig a tunnel down through the surrounding hills/mountains to come out at the hydro plant, usually at sea level. From the tunnel, you connect a "penstock' a very big pipe. In the case of Takatz Lake, it is a 72" pipe (at Thayer Lake it is 42"). So the water rushes down the tunnel, and into the penstock that carries the water to the plant ... remember it is under big pressure because it is coming from above. The water is then in this case, fed to two turbans. The pressure of the water turns the turbines and this generates the electricity. What you see at Takatz is a lot of the debris that was taken out of the tunnel when it was being built, and you see the penstock slanting down from the tunnel inside the mountain and leading to the plant.
Takatz is interesting because there are (will be, it is proposed), two dams. The main dam will raise the water level in the lake by 200 feet. But notice to the right, there is a "dip" or a "saddle" in the terrain ... the water would run out of the lake there. So they have to build a "saddle dam" that will hold the water in at that point. The "lake tap" (drain) will be located in front of the saddle dam (red "x"). That is where the tunnel will begin, and it will go all the way down under the mountain to the plant, where the penstock is then attached. Fun huh?
Doug
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After getting with a cold for a few days, I'm back in my virtual helo again.
Tested the latest zip-file (2015-09-22) today.
Thanks for adding a helipad to angoon! This was a great idea. Angoon is very nice modeled, but starting flights there was only possible for floatplanes so far. Now, helos have a starting point, too.
PP15 is beautiful. The two dams are very nice. Helo flying at PP15 is great fun.
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Doug,
Regarding the dispatches most interesting for helo flyers will be approaches and departures. Especially hints on tall obstacles like trees, cranes etc. are important. It depends on the location. Goat Lake lower site, approach should follow white pass from skagway. Other locations are easier on approach.
At some locations helipads are placed near a fence. This is also interesting information on approach.
I can collect some informations for different locations the following days.
In an earlier discussion, powerline inspection was suggested to be an option as a dispatch, I believe.
Thomas handplaced a lot of powertowers near snetisham area hydro stations. May be a dispatch route following these powertowers could be possible?
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We could try a powerline inspection. Thomas and I both had problems with the transmission line maker in IS3. So these would have to be individually placed. We have it on the list.
D
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Thank you, Doug and Thomas!
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Blue Lake Hydro Progress Report (Doug)
This one has been difficult from the beginning. First of all the terrain was not "correct" for the placement of a dam, so I had to "move a mountain or two" to make it happen. You can see the before and after pics below. There are some wonderful videos on YouTube about this project ... it is very well documented. One of those is a drone's view of the winter construction work there: Click Here (https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?p=Blue+Lake+Hydro+Sitka&fr=ymyy-t-999#id=9&vid=de7a4453cd2a95fe305839a18d6c18c3&action=view). Notice the big yellow crane there, a key feature to the success of this work. We didn't have an object exactly like it, but we have a big yellow crane too. Notice the "forms" they are using for the concrete, Steve W came through and gave us som new objects to use, forms and scaffolding. (Thank you Steve). I placed several "people" onto the site ... but you are going to have to look closely to see them ... as it would be on the real site. The dam we depict is the height and width of the real dam that was already there. they are going to build it 83 feet higher. I sized the dam first, then built the terrain around it.
Next, I have to go after the hydro plant down at the sea shore. ORBX put it in in "photoreal" (from Google Earth) so it is "flat." I'm going to place objects that I can find to try to correctly re-construct the hydro plant. That should take a fair amount of time. For the "construction watchers" ... this "part" of the work is in the APP.zip and you can play with it and see it. The "position" for the helipad is on the APP site (look under Blue Lake Hydro). (There is no ADEX yet).
Thomas and I are working on the last two of these in this set ... there might be more later if there is interest. The next phase of this will be enhancing the "here to there" aspect of this (dispatches, etc). In the end, it looks like we will have a fascinating package to offer.
Doug (PS ... click on the picture for a larger view)
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Hi Klaus, did you catch your cold from the Oktoberfest oder nicht?
Concerning powerline inspection I tell you there is a dispatch in my mind. In real life there was an avalanche accident near Snettisham which we can rebuild, maybe following the medevac issue. Let us finish the scenery developping and clear the faults.
Th
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Hi Thomas,
Well catching the cold from Oktoberfest wouldn't be that bad ;)...in fact I wasn't able visiting it so far :'(.
But there's the following week.....l find some time spending a nice time there, I'm sure :D
Your idea with the powerline inspection sounds great....take all time you need completing the sceneries first.
Doug, Steve and you sre doing an awesome job with creating the APP hydro stations and developing nice objects for placing there. Thanks so much.
@ Doug
Thanks for the link to the Blue Lake construction site videos......They are really very interesting.
A big applause to the Liebherr 1600....that is a nice toy for real men!! ;)
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Blue Lake Hydro - Completed
(Except for some possible QC issues), this plant is now finished. The hydro plant is in an area where there is a "Sitka Industrial Complex" site. This was all "photoreal" ... (flat) ... so buildings had to be placed onto the image to make it become 3-dimensional. The new plant is positioned exactly where the real one is being constructed.
Doug
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Salmon Creek Hydro - By Thomas Menzel
Thomas has finished Salmon Creek Hydro. It is "up" on the site for QC. You will be amazed at the detail in this one too. When you look at the little stone walls, and piles of boulders ... each one is sized, rotated and placed, and usually placed perfectly adjacent to one attaching to it. On many of these, you have to also set the individual objects' altitude from the ground. A tedious process. In this one there is almost a little garden at the base of the dam with some wonderful little bridges and hiking areas, even a little campsite. (see screenshot). As you follow the stream down, you will be able to see glimpses of the penstock, and the creek is "riverscaped." The actual hydro facility is perfectly blended into the little town down by our recent medical center. This is really a great example of attention to detail with the eye of an artist. (Well done, Thomas!).
This was the last plant remaining to "place" into our APP set. We ask anyone interested to download the APP and give it a final checkover for Quality Control. With this kind of detail, we can have errors. So please point out anything out of place you may see.
Next ....
I'll now go to work on the dispatches. I'll be flying each one, using the float plane and will give a bit of a commentary for float planes. Corbu is going to give me some wording that will help the heli pilots on approaching and taking off from the various helipads. Again, any/all of you are welcome to add a comment or two to the dispatches. We'll keep them very simple, but we also want them useful.
Once we are OK on QC and the dispatches are finished, I'll put the final touches on the Web Page. I'll move the construction log to the very bottom of the page so we can keep it for historical purposes. The top "Under Construction" table will be eliminated and the zip button for downloading (introduction table will become linked and the link at the bottom of the log will be deleted). I'll be putting some final touches onto the readme document for the whole project. Robert P is going to be making a "trailer" video to advertise APP. So the team will have (1) link to APP, (2) link to Readme.doc (3) link to trailer movie. We can then offer these on the many sim forums so people can "come and get it."
As I look at these, there is no way you are going to be able to appreciate them from a float plane. The heli folks will be able to see a lot more of the detail. So I think, in the readme, I'll put something about getting out of the aircraft and "slewing around" to view the details that are in each of these. The "hours" are in the details ... and there is a lot to see that you cannot see from 1200 feet.
If any of you have ideas on how to present this to the flight sim community, we are listening. I'll have the "links" package posted here so anyone can grab the "advertising" and take it to their special forum.
Home stretch . . . . .
Doug
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Doug,
For presenting APP to the flightsim community I'd suggest hovercontrol.com as best place for the heli folks.
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Klaus...ok. As you fly these, take a few notes...for instance, "best approach to helipad 3 is from 230 degrees, watch for an antenna to starboard"... That kind of stuff. Ill then add your comments into the dispatches. Not flying helos, I'd be poor at this, you could really make the heli side up of this come alive. I'll work on the float plane side of it. I'll have the basic directions in there, pretty much as they are now...we just need to add some color and specifics to these to make them fun and exciting. I'll be pointing out things to look for as they fly over. You will be able to add more details for helos, and tell them special things to notice.
Just email me any notes you make and I'll add them as we go.
Doug
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Thomas...after the dispatches are done, we might try a transmission line. I'm thinking of a short one from Thayer Lake to Angoon. The IS3 didn't work for me. But with SbuilderX, I can lay down a VERY narrow polygon with a couple of angles, maybe 15 meters wide, but 25 Km long. Once the polygon is laid out, the come back over it with a line of objects (transmission towers) spaced about 200 meters apart along the polygon. Both the polygon and the line of objects should follow the terrain altitude nicely. This might work. We would have to be careful to have the rotation correct, at each angle we would have to reset the "heading." I'm thinking 2 or 3 of these. Then we could have one broken, or an accident for a repair crew, whatever. The helos would "fly the line" to find a problem. (Back burner for now, but fun for later).
D
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Gentlemen,
Are these (video links below) what you guys are envisioning as "flying the line" to find and fix problems with the APP powerlines? For sure, it will certainly be FUN and CHALLENGING to the helo aficionados here.. :o 8)
https://youtu.be/kh8Zu5_0Am0
https://youtu.be/BGywP1-ZPAk
Looking forward to it and by the way, thanks for the super awesome attention to details! ;)
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Klaus ... check out Thayer Creek Hydro ... start at the dock and move toward Angoon. Rod put in a transmission line for us. It is pretty neat.
Doug
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Doug and Rod,
just checked the Transmission line.....Looks great !!!!!
I added some screenies from Cockpit view
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and back to Angoon.....
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Nice pics, Klaus!
Thanks!
Rod
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Great work everyone.
Brad
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Continuing on the dispatches ...
There will be 7 of them, grouping many of the plants. You can now see the groupings by going to the "dispatches" table on the APP web page.
I think the "viewing tips" are going to work fine for this for the float planes. This should make it a lot more fun for them. Without the viewing tips, the float plane people will see very little of the work that has gone into APP. But the way we have done them, they can fly to the location, then step out of the plane and slew around following the viewing tip instructions, then they are put back int the float plane where they left it (we always take them back). Then they continue the flight. For the purists among us (those not beer-driven-to-insanity-at-Misty's-Place-bar) ... they can ignore the viewing tips and just fly the dispatch.
Klaus's directions for the helicopters will be very different for these dispatches. He can demonstrate all the things without the viewing tips and give a very good "how to" fly these from a helicopter point of view. So they are very different for a reason.
People will be able to "print" the dispatch. I put in a "test" one on PPD-01 ... there is a new "print" button at the top. Selecting it gives you a PDF to print. I'm going to put these in later because we want to spell-check and edit all of the dispatches (and the whole page) before I do these. But the concept works fine.
What's Next ...
Steve is working on a penstock solution (the slanted penstocks disappeared), Thomas is working on a couple of new starts for us and the movement of the Cable Station into Dorothy Lake ... (we think). I'll be finishing up the next two dispatches for the float planes. Klaus is working on the dispatches for the helicopters.
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Doug,
I emailed you about the penstocks' issue. There's nothing wrong and they work fine.
UPDATE - Issue solved on Doug's end. Everything is OK.
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Yes, thank you Steve ... problem was on my computer, not the zip file.
Finished the float plane dispatches. There are 7 total that group the plants. Klaus will be adding the helicopter dispatches. As these come in, I will edit each dispatch, then make a pdf of it so it can be downloaded. I also added a new start to Triangle Lake, we needed a start up at the dam construction site.
There is a nw APP zip at the site. as of 5 PM EST.
Doug
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Home Stretch ...
The web page now is "pretty much" as it is going to look. I still have a NOTAM at the top of the page saying it is under construction with a link to the Construction Table and the Construction Log, now at the bottom of the page.
There is a warning NOTAM that the dispatches are not yet ready (at the top of the Dispatch Table). All of the float plane dispatches are complete, Klaus is working on the helicopter side of this part of the project.
Robert P is working on a "trailer" for us (advertising video) ... but he is in the throws pf putting in P3D.V3 and I've told him to focus on that for now. When he gets his computer settled down, we'll get a fine video from him for our "grand opening."
Look over the page and see if there is anything missing. I'm wondering if we should make mention at each of the plant scenery locations which scenery is needed, SAK, PFJ, etc. And should that also be at the top of the dispatch somewhere?
Now going through all the links on the page making sure everything is connected to something. Let me know if you see anything out of place.
Doug
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We ask anyone interested to download the APP and give it a final checkover for Quality Control. With this kind of detail, we can have errors. So please point out anything out of place you may see.
Referring to this call of a final checkover I might ask again:
- will season changes in APP scenery nature (trees, bushes, plants) be part of a future workover?
- at least the pink blossom tree at PP04 should receive a change (during fall and winter)
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Hi Dieter ... no seasonal changes are not planned at this time. Perhaps later. But again, with the spread-out nature of these (literally square miles) doing the scenery 4 times over such a vast area would be difficult. We have kept our vegetation to coniferous trees and bushes that hold their color throughout the seasons.
Doug
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Home Stretch ...
The web page now is "pretty much" as it is going to look. I still have a NOTAM at the top of the page saying it is under construction with a link to the Construction Table and the Construction Log, now at the bottom of the page.
There is a warning NOTAM that the dispatches are not yet ready (at the top of the Dispatch Table). All of the float plane dispatches are complete, Klaus is working on the helicopter side of this part of the project.
Robert P is working on a "trailer" for us (advertising video) ... but he is in the throws pf putting in P3D.V3 and I've told him to focus on that for now. When he gets his computer settled down, we'll get a fine video from him for our "grand opening."
Look over the page and see if there is anything missing. I'm wondering if we should make mention at each of the plant scenery locations which scenery is needed, SAK, PFJ, etc. And should that also be at the top of the dispatch somewhere?
Now going through all the links on the page making sure everything is connected to something. Let me know if you see anything out of place.
Doug
Doug,
got a suggestion for the APP page rewrite. Right now you have to scroll all the way to the bottom for the update history to determine if there has been a more recent update to the APP file. Why not have a date at the end of the "Click to download ...." sentence like the APP Temp Library does? I always check the history date to determine if there is anything new and incorporate the date in the download name to keep things straight with my copious downloads of the APP "stuff!" :D
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Here comes an honest reply :-)
Because I would forget!
The link there takes you to the construction log. Yes you have to scroll down to see the last entry. But I want people, as long as this is a beta, to be reading that log. Soon we won't need it. Today if you look at the last log entry, it says I elevated a helipad at Blue Lake and there is a new zip. That might not even be a big-enough change to redownload...but the comments there let you make the decision. If you want to get to the bottom of the log immediately...click on the "page counter" link. It takes you to the counter and the bottom of the log will always be showing. (That's why I put the link to the counter there, my Easter egg for going straight to the latest log entry). We had 23 new people hit the page just today. I want to be sure those new people are reading the construction table and understanding we are beta. You know they are doing a bunch of grab and go...and they have an incomplete program that may bite them later. This gives them the warning.
It's amazing we have over 2200 UNIQUE people hitting the page so far, and we are not yet officially open for business!
Doug
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Here is photo of PAKT rwy 29
lat-lon: N55 20.81 W131 41.97
My plane gets bounced down to this level and if I slew up the runway appears normal from above. I find that if I disable both CVX_PP08_exitstream.BGL and CVX_PP08_mahoneyriver.BGL the problem goes away. Enabling either of these (or both of) these two files causes the problems at my payware PAKT airport.
John
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jer209:
I cannot duplicate your problem using the Alaska Power Project and PAKT Payware....you must have something else going on. Also, the PAKT Payware runway is a solid object (the only one of its kind) ...not a normal runway sitting on the ground level elevation. Since it is a solid object, I am not sure how you can be "falling through it".
Rod
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That actually "looks like" (probably isn't) the problem I had when I tried to remove PAKT PAYware ... extra runway that I Holger got me straightened out by redoing the terrain. But I don't think my problem is related to this one. (?)
Anybody else seeing this problem? Let us know ... if you do or you don't, it will help Jer209.
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While thinking "compatibility" ... has anyone looked at the Salmon Creek Hydro with the JUNEAU airport PAYware ... it is relatively close to the airport. Let us know what you do/don't see.
Thanks
Doug
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I just took a look now that I have loaded ORBX PAJN payware and Salmon Creek Hydro looks bautiful to me.
Rod
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Good, another we can check off. Darn, we are getting closer to the finish line. Thanks Rod.
D
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For easier navigation, I made each of the dispatches its "own" unique table. I then put a list of the dispatches in the upper (new) dispatch table listing the dispatches. You can click on one, and it goes directly to that dispatch (instead of scrolling down through all of them). Notice the bottom line of the dispatch tables say "back to Top of Dispatches" ... this takes you back to the leading talbe for the dispatches so you can quickly look at another one, but if done, the "back to top" is there to take you back to the top of the page.
Page Counter ... interesting, 25 new people since last night. The "unique" on the counter means individual people, the number to the left is the number of page hits. (I can add 20-30 to that easily in a day with all the corrections)... the one to watch is the "uniques." I wonder who all these people are? I wish they would stop by and say hello on the forum so we would know why they came to the page. For the fun of it, I'm adding the page counter unique number to each entry of the construction log. Pretty amazing.
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Update on APP
The dispatches are finished and usable. Klaus really did a great job on the "helicopter-side" of these and the heli folks are going to be pleased with his attention to detail. You can read them in their individual tables on the web page, or hit the PRINT button, bringing up a PDF that you can print out.
Thomas is making "Scenic Routes" for us. These are Plan-G flyovers over the power plant areas, connecting them in a scenic flight. With altitude changes, autopilot can be used with the GPS so you can just sit back and enjoy the ride. These will be for the less experienced people, there are no landings at the plants, just low fly-overs. The dispatches, in contrast, land at the plants and are far more difficult. So we will have "Here2There" for experts and novices.
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This may have been posted, but I seen this pipe hanging out and thought you may want to know about it. There's another one at the dam as well.
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Hi Tenpin ...
I thought you were missing a NEW library object from the new APP Temp library. But the object you are missing is FSXP3D_lens_ez_vehicles / crane_link-belt_extended.
You said there was also one at the dam, I bet you meant the "materials Handling dock" ... there is a crane there liting a penstock piece out of the barge. (Same problem ... library object missing of the crane).
However you reminded me of something important, I have not yet added an object for the new APP library in the RTMM Season Object Tester ... which I will do right now.
UPDATE: New Scenery Object Tester on Object Libraries Page now with new APP TEMP library object. dated 10.06.2015.
Doug
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Tenpin,
If you are having issues that you can't seem to figure out, shoot me PM, I'll work with you 1 on 1 and we'll see if we can work things out.
Steve
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When I click on the button to DL the latest APP.zip I takes me to the "A" section of the scenery pages. Where is the latest App.zip?
The updated scenery test shows a crane sitting next to Brads Barbecue building.
Any chance of getting a link to the APP on the Misty's Place Site-Wide Menu Buttons
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Tenpin,
It looks like the link to the APP.zip is messed up. It takes me to the "F" section of the same page. Be patient; I'm sure that Doug will fix it as soon as he realizes the problem.
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Yep ... just fixed it. Try it again.
Yes, I'll get a button on the Misty's Place site ... sort of waiting till we were out of beta or people would think it was operational. As you can see from this, it is "fluxing" a little and that happens when you are building something as complex as this one. Good idea, and we'll do it.
Doug
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Thanks Doug. I know you are in Beta so please forgive me if I came across as impatient. Believe me I know what beta testing is all about.
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Tenpin,
Did you get your missing crane issue solved?
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Tenpin,
Did you get your missing crane issue solved?
I cannot locate FSXP3D_lens_ez_vehicles / crane_link-belt_extended.
loaded the latest APP zip files. Everything is there except this one bgl? or object. Did a search but it is not listed in any of my scenery or object files.
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Tenpin,
It should be in:
RTMM Required Libraries Part I\EZ Scenery LibraryFSXP3D 6-7-14\EZ Scenery LibraryFSXP3D
Do all of the objects show in your RTMM Scenery Tester scenery? Object #4 in the tester is from the same library.
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Thanks guys, Had an outdated Part1.
The pipes are now being held in the air by a great looking crane.
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Darn, there goes my levitation experiment! :-)
Glad you fixed it...I use that crane at every construction project.
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Project Status Report
We are about ready for the "Grand Opening" for APP. The page has been "readied" to go live ... taking out the construction comments (which have been now delegated to the bottom of the page for historical reference). We will embed a great video Robert P is making for us, and when that is ready, we will launch shortly after. I've given the page a final spell check and link check, everything seems to be working.
If you see anything amiss, let us know.
Thank you for all your suggestions and feedback on problems you encountered. For those of you who followed this project all the way ... thank you for your PATIENCE downloading and re-downloading as we made changes.
I have put a button on the Misty's Place Table for the "Alaska Power Project" ... it takes you to the page. Also on the HOME page, right rail, a link is there indicating "NEW" that takes you to the project.
Doug
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Will the word "TEMP" be deleted in
- RTMM APP Library TEMP
before "Grand Opening"?
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Will the word "TEMP" be deleted in
- RTMM APP Library TEMP
before "Grand Opening"?
Nope. Like the Temp Medical object library it too will remain "temp" until the next major object library roll out, at which time both will be incorporated into the newest library with a whole bunch of other new stuff. (Probably will happen after the first of the year.)
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Guys! All I can say is WOW! What a GREAT package!! I know what I'll be exploring this weekend!! A big THANK YOU to ALL for your hard work in producing such a fun scenery package!! I've only checked a few, but those tell me what to expect - FUN and QUALITY! Thanks again!
BP;) Don
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Yes, thank you for all your dedication and work creating and building this great scenery.
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gotta' question, down loaded both scenery files and I notice a paint job for the MILVIZ Chinook and it says click on image to down load, but nutin' happen what did I do wrong????
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Try it again ... it is a "hot" link now.
Doug
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OK, thanks it's working now
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The Alaska Power Project (APP) page is now fully released. The final APP page is great! Fine job on that Doug. Congratulations to all for a fantastic addition to the RTMM Scenery Library.
Rod
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Thanks Rod ... that one was a lot of fun. Unlike some we've done, this one came with a higher learning curve for me, learned some good "stuff" as we built it. Always nice to stretch a little technically. I'm going to sort of take a break from creating scenery for a while. Lots of "music" (Christmas Carols) stuff coming up. This is a busy season. So I'll sit back and relax a little and enjoy what we've built. Thanks for your contributions on this one too!
Doug
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Well I've finished the AK Power Project and I have to say the only problem I had was that I'm running out of adjectives to describe the great job you designers and developers. One thing I did after I'd visit a site and look around, then to see how much work was put into changing that area, I'd uncheck that APP box in the scenery library while maintaining that position. I guess I'll have to use the old jaw dropping adjective of WOW. Once again KUDOS to all those involved
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Took the APP plunge today. All I can say is, wow. Was glad to see that Doug supplied dispatches and scenic routes...made it alot easier to get the "big picture". A real work of art, gentlemen. Thank you.
jsapair
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Glad you are enjoying it. For the heli folks, they will see everything, but (me being a fixed wing simmer), you just cannot see it all with out the slewing side excursions if you fly a plane. Fun to see av8erjm uncheck the scenery for before and after. This really forced us to play with the terrain to make it work. On some of these, when I researched the proposed site, found it and started thinking about the layout, I came close to just skipping it. The "No way this will work" thought almost won out more than once. Then it sort of became its own game, tiring to place it in spite of the obstacles. I really have to hand the credit for this project to Thomas. A great idea and a terrific working partner. Couldn't have fine it without him. And if course Klaus added the "heli perspective" making it more real for helicopters. A "fun" project for all.
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Floating buildings at PAGY (Wpt01) on VFR APP_01 Scenic Flight. I'm running FSX DX10 with Global activated. I thought maybe it was because I had my APP_Temp Library higher in priority than APP. Moved the Lib down with the rest of my RTMM Libs but that didn't fix it.
My plane is sitting at N59-27.61, W135-18.93 with a MB of 195. Pic attached.
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I searched for "Skagway floating houses fix" on this site to find the file Brad made last year. Try this: ;)
http://return.mistymoorings.com/scenery/zipfiles/skagway_floating_houses/Skagway%20Floating%20Houses%20Fix%20Full.zip (http://return.mistymoorings.com/scenery/zipfiles/skagway_floating_houses/Skagway%20Floating%20Houses%20Fix%20Full.zip)
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Hi, Jeff. I have that fix installed already from a long time back. Exact same problem, though. I'll install it again...I saved the .zip. Who knows...stranger things have happened.
JJ
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Jeff, that was it. Good catch my friend...I didn't remember that fix, obviously. Had it at one time but the whole folder mysteriously disappeared from my hard drive. I save all those .zip files so an easy fix. All is well at Skagway once again. Thanks for going to the trouble of checking it out.
JJ
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8)
Glad it fixed things for ya. Have a happy Thanksgiving. :)